SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 1- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 1Posted on 10/11/2010 2:57:22 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
The Pentecostal movement is severely divided on the so-called "Toronto Blessing." See the following YouTube videos:
SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 1- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 1
SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 2- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 2
Pastor David Wilkerson On Weird Manifestations
See also these files:
THE STRIKING SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE "TORONTO BLESSING" AND THE SERPENT POWER OF KUNDALINI
Comparison Between the Kundalini Practice and the so-called Toronto Blessing
Not long after the wholesale Kundalini infestation of the Pentecostal movement, some leaders of the Pentecostal movement began a wholesale assault on the "Queen of Heaven":
When the River Burst Against It
By Mark Connell
In a northern city in Argentina, four Catholic men fell to the ground in a most unusual way. Here is an account of the event by Protestant author C. Peter Wagner:
"In the city of Santiago del Estero, a local priest decided to oppose the [Evangelistic] crusade by invading the area with a religious procession. When they arrived, the four strong men carrying the statue of the priest's favorite virgin all fell to the ground under the power of the Spirit and the statue shattered into a thousand pieces. Two of the men spent the night in the hospital and the other two in [Evangelist Carlos] Annacondia's deliverance tent! This is warfare prayer in action."
Wagner, church growth expert and leading teacher of "spiritual warfare prayer," is gleefully describing here the fruit of specific prayer initiated by Protestants in what he unashamedly calls a "laboratory for relating strategic-level spiritual warfare prayer to evangelism." Strategic-level warfare prayer, according to Wagner, is prayer that seeks to defeat the "territorial spirits" ruling an area. (Another name for these demons would be 'strongmen'; hence the description of the four statue bearers as "strong men" has additional significance here. These men were part of a demonic procession. This point will become clearer as the facts are presented.) The laboratory Wagner prefers to test out this prayer technique in is the country of Argentina, and he is obviously delighted with the outcome. 'Revival' has hit Argentina says Wagner, and at last the Gospel is being preached to the people there. The gospel is in, idolatrous processions are out.
Wagner relates that before the Falkland war of 1982, "Argentines had been widely known as being indifferent or resistant to the gospel." Another writer relates how, because of the war," It was the sorrow and suffering of our nation that prepared hearts for the gospel." After the war the people sensed that "The church had failed them, Peronism had failed them. They were ready to try something different." And so they did.
Along with increased levels of Spiritism, Mormonism and other cults, Wagner says great evangelical growth occurred in Argentina. He suggests this evangelical growth was the result of both warfare prayer and the ministry of Carlos Annocondia, a wealthy businessman turned evangelist. It was outside one of Annocondia's revival services that the Spirit overcame the men in the procession and the statue was smashed.
While this single episode may be amusing to a Protestant with an aversion to Marian piety, it should cause Catholics to take notice. Evidently the lesson Wagner would have us learn here is that, at least in Argentina, the Holy Spirit does not approve of Marian processions. In fact, He disapproves so strongly that He sent two of the men in this procession to the hospital. Although Argentina was over 90% Catholic in 1974, C. Peter Wagner doesn't flinch when he writes that there was "little effective evangelization" in the Argentinean city of Adrogue before 1974.
There are currently people worldwide using Wagner's techniques to pray directly against some of the most ancient pietistic practices of both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. As hard as this may be to believe in this age of ecumenism, there is a war being waged in South America and the tools of this battle are spreading worldwide.
Prayer campaigns with names such as "Operation Queen's Domain" have been launched worldwide. C. Peter Wagner has written that:
"we consider the Queen of Heaven as a chief principality commissioned by Satan to keep unbelievers in spiritual darkness, and we have identified ancient Ephesus as one of her principal power centres where she formerly manifested in the person of Diana. We called it the "palace" because the temple of Diana (Artemis) in Ephesus syncretised, among other things, ancient Cybele worship, the Moon Goddess (Sin), and allegiance to Mammon(the temple was the first historical prototype of what we know today as the World Bank). Not surprisingly, Ephesus was also the site chosen by the church of that day for the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD which officially declared that Mary is the "mother of God." [Emphasis added]Wagner has recently been installed as the "Presiding Apostle" and will help guide a worldwide convocation of restored Apostles who seek to re-establish God's Government on this earth. God's Government (Five fold ministry including true Apostles and Prophets) is not properly in place at this time, claims Wagner, hindering true revival.
Elsewhere, Protestant pastors in San Nicholas, Argentina, under the leadership of Prophetic Intercessor Cindy Jacobs, have declared war on the Queen of Heaven. Mrs. Jacobs did this upon receiving direct instructions from God.
Around the world, spiritual 'maps' are being drawn up detailing the 'spiritual strongholds' in cities. 'Prayer-walkers' are going through many cities, perhaps circling your Churches, Cathedrals and Marian sites, 'pulling down' the demonic influences of a what they see as a Gospel-less and corrupt Catholicism.
Like a river, this movement has flowed from South America and threatens to weaken any house whose foundation is not sure. In the Northern Hemisphere, the 'fruit' of this offensive bears names like the Toronto Blessing, the Brownsville Revival or, simply, The River.
Men and women who deny the Real Presence in the Eucharist and have no intention of submitting to St. Peter's successor lead these ongoing Christian services which claim supernatural visitations from God complete with manifestations such as: barking like dogs, roaring like lions, howling, uncontrollable laughter, orgasms, women laying on the floor with legs spread giving birth to 'ministries', shaking, being glued to the floor, deep bowing, literally vomitting up demons, gold dust falling from the ceiling, angel feathers falling from the sky, gold teeth and fillings, prophetic utterances, visitations by angelic beings, mist, fog, spiritual drunkenenss. The list could go on infinitely, because there simply is no limit on what will be accepted at these meetings. Everything is permissible in the River except the use of reason.
Almost beyond belief, Catholic Charismatic leaders are willing to share the stage with these same River leaders and are willing to promote an event with these people as the 'most significant assembly of Christians' in this Jubilee year. Leaders such as Father Michael Scanlan, Ralph Martin, Bishop Sam Jacobs, Father Tom Forrest and many others will encourage Catholics to sit under the ministry of men and women who regularly pray against the truths which Saints have died to protect. Charity demands that one assume these Charismatic leaders do not understand what C. Peter Wagner, Cindy Jacobs and the other River leaders believe and teach. Perhaps, then, a look might be beneficial for all?
Part Two of "A River Burst Against It" coming soon.
©Copyright Mark Connell 2000
Here's more on C. Peter Wagner's Operation Queen's Domain:
Operation Queen's Domain
WORLDWIDE PRAYER MOVEMENT FOCUSES INTERCESSION ON 40/70 WINDOWEditorial note: the worldwide prayer movement will focus it's prayer strategy for the next five years on the 40/70 Window, the area between 40 and 70 degrees north of the Equator, from the western tip of Ireland to the eastern tip of Siberia. In this contribution Peter Wagner explains the background of this new prayer initiative named "Operation Queens Domain".
WORLDWIDE PRAYER MOVEMENT FOCUSES INTERCESSION ON 40/70 WINDOW
Our October 1 "Celebration Ephesus" was a magnificent event from every conceivable perspective. The Holy Spirit visited us with an anointing of compassion and generosity and we were able to leave over $75,000 US for the Turkish Protestant Earthquake Relief Committee. Undoubtedly you have seen many detailed reports of the happening.
One of the most frequent questions I was asked during the event was, "What are you going to do after this?" I honestly had no answer. Celebration Ephesus was a one-of-a-kind occasion. Once the euphoria wore off however, God's revelation for the next step began to come. I am now calling prayer leaders and intercessors worldwide to move from Operation Queen's Palace to Operation Queen's Domain over the next 5 years, 2000-2004.
What we might call the "Queen's Domain" is an imaginary geographical area between 40 and 70 degrees north of the Equator, the "40/70 Window." It runs from the western tip of Ireland to the eastern tip of Siberia. It covers twelve time zones from Greenwich Mean Time to the International Date Line. On one side, the waves of the Atlantic Ocean roll up through the Bay of Biscay and on the other side the waves of the Pacific Ocean roll up through the Bering Sea.
In the 40/70 Window we find Europe, Eurasia, the Northern Mediterranean, Russia, Armenia, the Balkans, Turkey and the Turkic Belt, the "stans" of the former USSR, the ancient Silk Road running from Greece to China, Mongolia, the Xinjiang Province of China, North Korea, the Hokkaido Island of Japan just to name a few of the incredibly important geographical regions.
A whole cluster of considerations have helped us to understand, at least at this preliminary stage, why God might choose to focus our attention on the 40/70 Window. Our knowledge of the 10/40 Window increased exponentially during the 1990s, and I expect the same thing will happen with the 40/70 Window over the next few years.
One advantage that we have now, over what we had 10 years ago, is that the World Prayer Centre is well equipped with the technical infrastructure to serve as an unprecedented communications hub for researchers, intercessors, and prayer leaders. The Observatory unit at the WPC, is compiling an enormous spiritual mapping data base, and throughout Operation Queen's Domain they will be able to provide the strategic ongoing and up-to-date information that we need for informed intercession much more rapidly than in the past. Our prayers will therefore be directed toward much sharper targets than ever before.
Operation Queen's Palace concluded in Turkey, the recognised spawning grounds for worldwide goddess worship. We called it "Queen's" Palace because we consider the Queen of Heaven as a chief principality commissioned by Satan to keep unbelievers in spiritual darkness, and we have identified ancient Ephesus as one of her principal power centres where she formerly manifested in the person of Diana. We called it the "palace" because the temple of Diana (Artemis) in Ephesus syncretised, among other things, ancient Cybele worship, the Moon Goddess (Sin), and allegiance to Mammon(the temple was the first historical prototype of what we know today as the World Bank). Not surprisingly, Ephesus was also the site chosen by the church of that day for the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD which officially declared that Mary is the "mother of God." [Empasis added] Turkey and Ephesus area included in both the 10/40 Window and the 40/70 Window, so we are looking at Turkey as our principal hinge nation. An incredible love for Turkey among believers worldwide was ignited by Celebration Ephesus.
The Queen of Heaven has deeply penetrated and corrupted much of the traditional Christianity of the 40/70 Window. Hard-core idolatry has become a major problem in many churches throughout much of the 40/70 Window and it constitutes an enormous barrier to lost people being saved. Latin America was in a similar situation up through the 1950s, but the spiritual climate there has changed radically.
The 40/70 Window is the greatest area of dormant Christianity in today's world. Revival reports have recently been emerging from many different areas, but notably few of them are coming out of the 40/70 Window. The 40/70 Window contains more unsaved Christians than any other part of the world.
The 40/70 window is the heart of non-Arab Turkic Islam, which draws considerable spiritual power from the Moon Goddess, one of the manifestations of the Queen of Heaven. In a recent AD2000 report, Luis Bush has drawn our attention to the "Turkic Belt," also called the "35/45 Window," with nations clustered along the ancient Silk Road from Greece to China. Signs of spiritual breakthrough in the Turkic Belt, which we include in the 40/70 Window, point toward a kairos moment, demanding fervent and concentrated prayer. For example, in 1990 there were only around 1600 believers in the Turkic Belt, but by 1999 the number was over 43,000!
Several International leaders have been divinely drawn to the 40/70 Window. A few months ago I asked Roger Mitchell of U.K. to undertake coordination of all of Europe instead of simply coordinating Northern Europe as before. Roger has been one of the most dedicated and proactive of all the regional coordinators. Harold Caballeros, the equally effective coordinator in Spanish-Speaking Latin America, has resigned that position in order to focus his energies on Spain, a key nation of the 40/70 Window. Cindy Jacobs has also prioritized Spain on her ministry agenda for the next ten years. Gerda Leithgob has been led to concentrate on Poland. Ana Mendez and Marty Cassady have an unusual burden for Italy and Greece. Alice Smith has joined them in the focus on Italy. Cindy Jacobs has recently received words about ministry in Russia, including an assignment for Russian Jews. Martha Lucia of Christian International has received prophetic instructions to target the 40/70 Window.
Switzerland, considered by many the centre of world finance, is in the 40/70 Window, and many are discerning a close relationship between the Queen of Heaven and the spirit of Mammon.
The 40/70 Window hosts Brussels, Belgium, the headquarters of the United Nations where the promotion of the worship of Gaia or Mother Earth has become widely known. Some feel that she, another disguise of the Queen of Heaven, should become the recognised deity of the human race.
The 40/70 Window is a site of many of God's fresh starts: the Garden of Eden, Mt. Ararat, Ur of the Chaldees, Antioch, Wittenberg, Aldersgate, and others. We believe that another fresh start is on the horizon for the 40/70 Window.
Without knowing how important it would soon become in Operation Queen's Domain, over 200 highly-trained intercessors moved into the 40/70 Window at the time of what some occult practitioners called the "culminating spectacle of the heavens," namely the solar eclipse of August 11, 1999. Seventeen prayer journey teams moved out from the World Prayer Centre, while an equal number joined them from U.K. They were strategically located in England, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Bosnia, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Greece, and Turkey, as well as in Iraq and Israel of the 10/40 Window. This high-level prayer initiative has set in place a very sound spiritual infrastructure for Operation Queen's Domain.
It must be kept in mind that as we concentrate our prayer initiatives on the 40/70 Window, the nations and regions of the world which trace their cultural roots to peoples of the 40/70 Window will be directly affected. This means that nations like U.S.A, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Latin America, the Philippines, and other places will benefit immensely from Operation Queen's Domain.
Our prayers for the lost people in the 10/40 Window over the past decade have been incredibly productive. At the beginning of the decade the four most significant anti-Christian blocks were Communism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam. Communism is no longer that significant, Buddhism is on the run, Hinduism is badly battered, and Islam has deep cracks that were not there previously. A large percentage of the unreached people groups now have church planting teams on site. We must continue to pray for and to evangelise the 10/40 Window, but it is now time to shift the primary target for strategic-level warfare to the 40/70 Window.
Much of the 40/70 Window is exactly where Latin America was fifty years ago. Now we are seeing revival fires burning in much of Latin America, and the Queen of Heaven is loosening her grip. We believe that in a much shorter time than that her grip on the 40/70 window will also be broken, and revival fires will be burning brightly from Ireland to Siberia.[Emphasis added.]
C. Peter Wagner International Director World Prayer Centre
Source: Global Harvest Ministries
And here's more on their coordinated attack on "the stronghold of the Queen of Heaven":
For more on this subject, see Operation Queen's Palace and OVERCOMING THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN.Breakthrough in Argentina
From, "The Voice of God" by Cindy JacobsItalics in original. This document provided for educational purposes.
A couple of months ago while I was writing this book, I was asked by Harvest Evangelism to go to the city of San Nicholas, Argentina. Harvest Evangelism is headed by Ed Silvoso, one of the foremost authorities on the subject of reaching entire cities for God. His book That None Should Perish is a classic on prayer evangelism. He tells in his book how as a 13-year-old boy, he would ride his bicycle to the western shore of the Parana River, and for a precious hour he would meet with the Lord and pray for his skeptical city of 100,000 souls. But it seemed as though no one was interested in becoming a Christian
Some 35 years later, Ed's heart still longed for a breakthrough in his home city. The pastors in the city had been in disunity, and strife had been rampant. San Nicholas was a tough place to try to pastor a church.
In the fall of 1994, as I was reading Ed's book, the Lord spoke to me, "Cindy, I want you to go to San Nicholas. I'm going to answer the prayers Ed prayed when he was a 13-year-old boy. In addition, my people are crying out to me and San Nicholas is a very special city." [Emphasis added]
As I traveled to the city with Dan and Elaine Jue, missionaries with Harvest Evangelism, they shared with me how San Nicholas was known as "the graveyard of evangelists." That was certainty a faith-building bit of information! But upon our arrival, I discovered some good news. The intercessors and some of the pastors had been on a 40-day Daniel fast (i.e., vegetables and water), and it was to end the second day of the meetings. (I was only there for a two-day seminar, co-teaching with Ed Delph.)
We met for the first session at the Harvest Evangelism campground outside the city. It was so packed that people were standing outside looking into the windows! I felt led to share about the redemptive purpose God had in mind for the city of San Nicholas. By redemptive purpose, I mean the reason God created the city; and His plans and destiny in the Kingdom for it.
The name Nicholas comes from the Greek word nikao and means overcomer or victor. The word nikao is used in two significant places in Scripture related to prophetic warfare. First in Luke 11:22, Jesus Himself talked about overcoming the strongman. The second reference is found in Revelation 2 and 3 and is addressed to the churches in the cities concerning their need to overcome. A particularly powerful promise was given in Revelation 2:26 to the church in Thyatira, "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations" (italics added).
I believe it is no mistake that the name Nicholas was given to this city in Argentina. From the looks of things, however, the city was not experiencing the victory God meant for it. Why was this? The pastors were working as hard as they could and loved the Lord.
As the local leaders studied the city, one major thing was apparent. A stronghold of the Queen of Heaven was present in the city. This demonic spirit that counterfeits as Mary had appeared there and told the locals she wanted a grand cathedral built. People came from all over the world to worship her there. Many of the walls of the city were painted with pictures of her, declaring it to be her city.
As I read the Scripture from Jeremiah 7:16-19 to the meeting, about how the worship of the Queen of Heaven brings God's wrath upon a city, it was very quiet. I was thinking how similar their situation was to the city of Rosario, which I wrote about in the chapter dealing with strongholds in the book Breaking Strongholds in Your City. Rosario had also been given to the Queen of Heaven. Explaining that the Queen of Heaven was not the Virgin Mary and that Mary would be very unhappy to be given the title of a demonic power brought great understanding to the local leaders.[Empasis added]
That night the church, held in a theater, was packed. The pastors came prepared by the Holy Spirit. This is how I led the meeting:
I taught on God's purpose for the city.
We looked at the stronghold of the Queen of Heaven. It seems wherever we have found this kind of idolatrous worship, the city's economy has dropped dramatically. This had happened in San Nicholas. It used to have a big factory that brought large amounts of revenue. After the appearance of the Queen, poverty hit the city; the factory closed down and many were out of work. This directly correlates to Deuteronomy 28 that lists the curses that come from idolatry. [Emphasis added]
It is irresponsible to take people into spiritual battle without—as much as possible—making sure the "holes in their armor" are closed. Such "holes" are openings where Satan has legal right to hit them because of sin issues such as unforgiveness, relational problems between churches and so on. We had taken care of these issues earlier in the day by taking time for repentance. During this time, the pastors had knelt down and wept because of their strife and division. I'll never forget one pastor who prayed, "Perhaps this is why the fire has gone out in my heart, It is because I have spoken against my brothers."
Another area we covered was personal generational sin. Repentance was needed for those who had participated in the worship of idols or their ancestors. We had to shut the door to anything Satan would try to do to "backlash" against them after we prayed. This was a major spiritual battle and I had the fear of the Lord upon my life as I led them into war.[Emphasis added]
That day, the leaders repented of various kinds of generational sin: sins of witchcraft, consulting occultic healers, reading the astrological forecasts, participation in secret societies such as freemasonry, the worship of the Queen of Heaven and other idols. I then prayed that God would break the curses of poverty, insanity, infirmity and others that come with such worship. (Again refer to Deut. 28.)
The last step was to ask the pastors to come forward to repent for the sin of the worship of the Queen of Heaven in their city. Many came to the platform. I did not pray because it was not my place of authority to do so. [Emphasis added.] Those who live in the city are responsible for the sin. Also, the pastors and spiritual leaders are the "spiritual gatekeepers" for their city and they have great power in the Spirit to deal with the city's strongholds. The pastors knelt as did everyone else in the church. This kind of humility is important because it is part of the 2 Chronicles 7:14 pattern. A holy hush filled the room. Many began to weep as the pastors chose who would pray and represent them.
After the leaders of San Nicholas repented for idolatry and the worship of the Queen of Heaven, they stood to their feet and with loud voices of victory, entered into their redemptive destiny as overcomers! They proclaimed before the host of heaven, the demons in hell and those assembled that Jesus was Lord over San Nicholas. They pronounced that it was God's city and that it did not belong to the Queen of Heaven. To use Neil Anderson's terminology, they renounced the hold of the Queen of Heaven and announced the Lordship of Jesus Christ over the city! [Emphasis added] They took away the keys and legal right the prince of darkness had used to lock up their city spiritually. Chills ran down my back that night as these repentant people stood up in the power and authority given them through the King of kings.
As I looked around the church, my spirit discerned myriads of angels with bright swords warring over the city. Hosts and hosts of mighty warring angels fought back the dark angels surrounding the strongman until at last he left in defeat.[Empasis added]
At the end of the service, the Holy Spirit gave me a prophetic word that a businessman attending the meeting was going to start putting signs all over the city stating, "San Nicholas, where Jesus is Lord!" I exhorted the people to paint the outer walls of their homes with this declaration, thus welcoming the King into their city. Later, a young leader came to me and said he felt he was the one who would lead the campaign to fill the city with signs declaring the lordship of Christ. Already, I could tell the anointing of the overcomer was filling his heart.
After the service, some of the leaders asked me, "Cindy, how will we know that the power of this demonic strongman is broken?"
I answered, "People will not worship her here anymore. She will leave." [Emphasis added]
Exactly one week later; on November 25, 1994, the headline of the San Nicholas newspaper read, "The Virgin has moved to Tucum'an." Tucum'an is about 600 miles away from San Nicholas. Evidently, it was said she appeared in the freezer of a poor peasant. One of the Harvest missionaries, Dan Jue, put it this way in his report:
The demon behind the virgin found things so hot in San Nicholas that it literally went into a deep freeze. The spiritual significance is that the demonic stronghold in San Nicholas has been battered down! The grip of the forces of darkness has been broken! This is really a new day for this area! Gloria a Dios! The city is in the process of being transformed from the city of Maria (Queen of Heaven) to the city of Jesus Christ. [Emphasis added] You may find it strange that a Baptist should wax so mystically over what has occurred in the past few weeks in San Nicholas. But I have no other explanation except that God has done something supernatural in this area. Hallelujah to the King of kings!
That same month, the pastors of San Nicholas got together. Usually, only about three pastors would come and conduct a sort of business meeting. This time it was different. Twenty-one pastors came and they prayed for each other and blessed the work of God in each other's churches. Pastors who had been bitter enemies were hugging and praying for reconciliation.
Remember Luke 11:22? The stronger (the Church of Jesus Christ) overcame the strongman, took from him all the armor in which he trusted, and divided his spoils! The city of San Nicholas is fulfilling its destiny and becoming a city of God.
Reference: The Voice of God by Cindy Jacobs
Finally, one must also consider the tendency of some Pentecostalists to discount Marian apparitions as UFO encounters. See the Wikipedia entry, The Fatima UFO Hypothesis
Scripture is very clear about the demonic attack on the Queen of Heaven in the End Times:
Revelation 12 (New International Version)
Revelation 12
The Woman and the Dragon
1A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Clearly, there is a demonic attack against the Queen of Heaven. One must discern whether the recent manifestations of this attack within the Pentecostal movement are attributable to a Hindu Kundalini spirit unleashed at the Toronto Blessing which has subsequently infested much of the worldwide Pentecostal leadership and rank-and-file members.
Not all charismatics believe this movement. Just to point out.
God is not a spirit of confusion.
Thanks
Certainly, but it is accepted by many (most?) Pentecostal Protestants.
I have had a lot of experience in Pentecostal and Charismatic circles (see my post #60) so I'm not speaking as a complete outsider.
Of course I’d really like to hear the Catholic side of the procession story.
I’ll take a stab at it for you....the statue is on a relatively heavy platform, the statue itself weighs something....one of the front carriers stumbles and falls.....the weight shifts and the other front carrier, trying to stabilize the situation also falls and much of the weight falls on him. We now have the 2 hospitalized.....the other two, the weight having fallen forward, suffer only minor injuries as they too fall, but with none of the weight having any effect on their fall.....pretty simple stuff.
Wow. Thanks for proving my central thesis about discernment of spirits.
So, you would honestly have us believe that this Goddess Chiti taught by Kundalini Swami Muktananda is the same as the Christian Holy Spirit???From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Muktananda Born 16 May 1908(1908-05-16) Died 2 October 1982 (aged 74) Swami Muktananda (May 16, 1908-October 2, 1982) is the monastic name of an Indian Hindu guru and disciple of Bhagavan Nityananda. Swami Muktananda was the founder of Siddha Yoga. He wrote a number of books on the subjects of Kundalini Shakti, Vedanta, and Kashmir Shaivism, including an autobiography entitled The Play of Consciousness.
Quix, please help me out here! Please tell me you do not agree with this?!?
little jeremiah, can you help us out here? Is a Kundalini spirit "Chiti" the equal to or equivalent of the Christian Holy Spirit? Is that a proper understanding of Hindu cosmology, or more evidence of failure to discern spirits?
First of all, as I said, demonic influences exist. However, Kundalini is not a demon. More fundamentally, however, you have not evinced any understanding of a spiritual philosophy which could explain such manifestations as vaild (in Sanskrit, such purifications are called "kriyas.")
In the philosophy of Kundalini purification, it is said that the Divine Power enters and drives out the base aspects that have entered the human mind and set up shop. Demonic influences, black magic, animalistic tendencies, all base and depraved behavior, etc. And like any purification process, the more powerful it is, the more dramatic the results - can - be (but not always, since we're talking about God here, who can make anything gentle).
So when you show me videos of people acting horrifically under stated "Kundalini" experiences, and state that such things cannot be valid experiences of the Holy Spirit, I think two things:
1st, there's a lot of fakery and hysteria (and granted, some possession) being shoved out in the world as "Kundalini" and "purification," in which case that's what what we're seeing here - not real Kundalini.
2nd, what do you thing people look like when God is purging their black, animalistic hearts? Many stories exist about people going through all sorts of contortions as in these videos, while dark powers and pollutions are driven from their minds by the Holy Spirit. Denying that process is like damning emergency room doctors forcing a patient to vomit out poison, by looking at the poison and the convulsions and claiming that that's not how real doctors work, real doctors are caring and gentle and kind. Such a judgement is simply ignorance.
So which is it in the video? I don't know - and that's not my point. My point is that Kundalini is a name for the Holy Spirit in the Hindu spiritual tradition for thousands of years, and that there is a sound, rational, understandable purification process that is linked not only to Kundalini, but all manifestations of the Holy Spirit around the world, throughout human history.
So believe what you want, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. But there are possible explanations for these videos that are not demonic, and that do invoke the Holy Spirit. And I am saying that with a very straight face.
Are you a Pentecostal Christian?
Are you a Kashmir Shaivite?
So you are saying this "impartation" of the Toronto Blessing and the manifestations seen in these videos isn't so much a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, but a manifestation of demonic forces leaving the body, as in an exorcism?
That's not how these Pentecostals describe it.
NOW go to God’s Word and see what HE says about prayer. WHO did Jesus pray to?
If you have no desire to follow Christ, don’t bother - continue on with what the pagans say.....
....pray address a deity, a prophet, a saint or an object of worship;.
....To utter or address a prayer or prayers to God, a god, or another object of worship.
And you’ll reap what the pagans will reap.
I am a Catholic.
I asked a simple question: Are you a Pentecostal Christian?
Because I’m debating you under the assumption that you are a Pentecostal Christian, given the mutual kudos between you and Quix.
I do not desire to misrepresent your beliefs expressed on this thread as representing those of a Pentecostal Christian if you are instead a practicing Hindu or other non-Christian religious.
Wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know, Wikipedia) says Baba's teaching can be condensed as follows:
Swami Muktananda's teaching can be summarized in two quotations:
* Honor your Self, Worship your Self, Meditate on your Self, God dwells within you as you.
* See God in Each Other.
Called third strike. This is NOT what the Holy Spirit calls Christians to.
As G.K. Chesterton says, "Students of popular science, like Mr. Blatchford, are always insisting that Christianity and Buddhism are very much alike, especially Buddhism."
Seems like you're applying for the franchise rights for Hinduism.
Incidentally, Quix, Brian -- if you're interested, the Wikipedia article also mentions that
"Muktananda described his initiation by Nityananda and his subsequent remarkable experiences with kundalini energy and its manifestation in various chakras or psychic centers of the body, accompanied by strange visions and enhanced consciousness in his book Guru (1971)."
Two points: there's that damned kundalini again.
And also, ...chakras?
Sounds like Al Gore and his crazed sex poodle routine.
Makes me suspicious that all this green environmental stuff...which is tied to Gaia...is underneath tied to Hinduism and seducing spirits. A spiritual pincer movement, between the twin subversion of the Charismatic movement by megachurches/Oprah-ization and secret Hinduism on the one hand, and in the secular realm, the "Goddess Earth"/Environmental movement.
Cheers! Cheers!
In your view, all world religions manifest the Holy Spirit? In Christian thought, this would represent a serious heresy (indifferentism, universalism, etc.)
I can't speak for the Pentecostals : ) And as I said, I don't know if this is the actual Kundalini process in these videos. That's between these people and God.
But what I am saying is that (among other things) Kundalini effects purification which, at fundamental stages, can function as an exorcism (if any evil entity needs to be driven out), but also addresses psychological and moral weaknesses as well, which generally take far longer to deal with.
And real Kundalini always creates genuine spiritual purification. It changes people from pursuing darkness, to living in light. From being attracted to perversions, to being attracted to what is generally referred to as "clean living." And then on to deeper and deeper love for God and God's moral law. Anything, therefore, called "Kundalini" that leads to the spiritual worsening of someone is not Kundalini.
But consider - if the purifying power of God, the Holy Spirit, is One and Only, then while it acts in the same way, other cultures would name it differently. But it's effects would always be spiritual purification, never destruction. Yet free will would likewise never be destroyed. So in every culture there have been "falls from Grace" - but that isn't Grace's fault.
"And you’ll reap what the pagans will reap."
Ok! MR Allmighty?
Agreed. The posts are so stuffed with multiple layers of ignorance, prejudice, bigotry and flat-out lies that it would take a year to unravel them all.
But I will note that the first thing churches scream throughout history when people actually, personally experience the Holy Spirit without their prior approval is "demons!"
Which, of course, always makes it that much easier for real demons to hide behind the status quo - religious or otherwise.
--------------------------------
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
imho, the outrageous rants beginning this thread are evidently a result of embarrassed pique over 1000 Silverlings' very accurate and rational pointing out that Roman Catholic Charismatics don't fit the mold yet have even Papal approval.
Some of the RC's seem to be choking on the facts and their bitterness, resentments, bile, vengeance, retaliation compulsions boiled over. So, of course, they had to rush out and find as much dirt as they could throw at the perceived sources of the problems.
Thankfully, all they've succeeded in doing is displaying rather vividly their rigid biases and gross ignorance of the topic.
THANKFULLY, WE PENTECOSTALS & CHARISMATICS ARE IN GOOD COMPANY . . . .
They accused Pentecostals/Charismatics in Acts 2 of being drunk by 09:00.
Until THE LORD cleanses the earth and HIS CHURCH,
there will be excesses, counterfeits, exaggerations, sins, horrific nonsense, mistakes, misguided earnest efforts etc. all in the name of God.
However, not all seeming nonenses IS such. One of the greatest revivals of the last 150 years [I forget the name--might have been Azusa] . . . the leader was told by the Lord to wear a box on his head at the meetings--which he did. After a few years of constant revival, he decided to take the box off. The revival died shortly thereafter.
We see plenty of excesses, counterfeits, demonized doctrines of demons, ritualized horrific craziness, with all the Mary related idolatry and blasphemy. And that's with calm deliberate folks not even very excited!
We see it in the idolatry of THE RCC INSTITUTION.
And, whenever Holy Spirit is influencing and having HIS WAY with growing numbers of people, satan certainly redoubles his efforts to pollute, tarnish, corrupt, side-track, etc. any such move of Holy Spirit.
However, it's the cliques who cheer on--AS SCRIPTURE DECLARES--THE FORM OF RELIGION, THE FORM OF GODLINESS
WHILE DENYING THE POWER THEREOF
WHO ARE MOST DANGEROUS TO SOULS AND ETERNAL DESTINIES.
People can be brought back into balance.
Deliverance can be effected from demonic influences.
Correct teaching and training can bring more wholeness and fitting expressions.
At least those people are earnestly seeking God at all costs.
At least those people are willing to humble themselves in their desperately intense seeking God's face. They will not be denied. GOD WILL BLESS THEM. And He does.
It's pretty difficult to move lumps in the middle of the road or on a log, who are self-satisfied, self-righteous, idolatrous of their narrow, rigid, fossilized TRADITIONS OF MEN and DOCTRINES OF DEMONS in their worship of Mary and the blasphemies associated therewith.
A lot of these naysayers would likely not recognize a move of God's Holy Spirit if such occurred right in front of their faces. They are too willfully blind. Their spiritual sensors have become dulled, if not seered by so much stubborn refusal to hear and obey The Lord on something as basic as idolatry.
They are dreaming if they think I'm going to bother sorting out stuff they don't demonstrate the least bit of sincerity toward learning about. If any are sincere about learning, I'm sure there are some Roman Catholic Charismatics who are mature and spiritual enough to educate them.
I think the fact is that they merely want to deflect 1000 Silverlings' excellent points that have been hitting too much pay dirt for too many days now.
Thankfully, Holy Spirit WILL NOT BE STOPPED. He WILL HAVE HIS WAY, regardless. Some folks will be pushed aside. Some will learn and grow in The Lord. Others will be crushed under the Word of God because they REFUSED to be BROKEN ON THE WORD OF GOD.
Thanks for your kind and accurate post.
Nice to read a voice of sanity from an RC on the topic.
Thx.
In my view, if it isn't founded upon the Holy Spirit, it isn't a real religion. I don't believe there is more than one Holy Spirit. But I also think that God is infinitely creative, and never leaves a culture abandoned. So the Holy Spirit is where you find it, because the Holy Spirit is free from human limitation. But demonic influences exist as well, and so discrimination is needed.
I feel the same way about people. Everyone talks about their group associations, but I've found that a people's characters vary widely within any given organization - even religions, East or West. The group is not the person - and the group doesn't get the person off of responsibility for their own life.
So . . .
Did Holy Spirit ask something of you that you’ve been rebelling against and running from ever since?
OK, you’re not Pentecostal. Thanks.
Could you please answer a very simple, straightforward question?
Are you a Christian?
I do not recall ever having debated with you, and it makes a difference in how I interpret and respond to your posts.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
