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To: Mrs. Don-o
You might want to look at this alternative explanation.
134 posted on 10/06/2010 8:31:39 PM PDT by LiteKeeper ("Psalm 109:8")
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To: LiteKeeper

You have Q and A about the bible from John Macarthur on your website. An anti-charismatic, anti-catholic and no miracles since the apostles believer. So this is who who get inspiration from when reading the bible. Alot of people here would disagree. I believe that man is a very narrow minded individual. He went to Bob Jones university which loves to have ian paisley visit. Wow! Then a reformed episcopal church. Do they believe in the presence of the eucharist like anglican communion. That is a miracle. Also that other site is not too open to others at times. I could not get in years ago.


135 posted on 10/06/2010 10:09:19 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: LiteKeeper; johngrace
Good morning, LiteKeeper! I don't have much time here because I'm off to the doctor's, but I did want to make sure you got to see the link that FReepr johngrace posted at #132 (Link) -- it's a scholarly treatment of the Greek perfect tense as used in Kecharitomene, and should provide some insight into the implications of this extraordinary word or phrase, found nowhere else in the New Testament, nor ever used with reference to anyone else, except Mary the Mother of God.

Bless your heart, but this is not eisegesis, but lexical analysis of New Testament Greek. ALL the Greek-speaking Christians, by the way, from the writing of the Greek NT until now, have understood this to mean that Mary was "Panagia" --- fully holy and without sin. I'd recognize the Greek expertise on this one. That's what they've understood their own language to mean for 2000 years. It wasn't until 1500+ years later, that some non-Greek speakers started to say,"Hm. That doesn't fit into our theological opinons. So it's gotta means omething else."

(Incidentally, the Greek Orthodox have not "defined" exactly when the freedom from all sin was granted as a gift to Mary (except that it happened bfore the angel addressed her, on account of the form of the verb in the past-perfect, as "already accomplished." Some of the Orthodox see her as conceived with a perfect human nature; others see her as freed from sin in th moment after her conception. Thus they don't use the term "Immaculate Conception," but the term "Panagia" (all sanctified). But they're 100% agreement that it means she was without sin.

Further, consider that the angel's first weres were "the Lord is with you." Not "I, God's angel, come to you from the Lord in heaven." Not "the Lord be with you." But "the Lord IS with you." And this is before she conceived Christ, because the angle goes on to say, "you WILL conceive a son." So the All-Holy, Most-High, Supreme All-powerful God was "with her" even before the angel addressed her.

Does God dwell with the "totally depraved"? (To use Calvinist term.)

Does God dwell with sinful Galilean girls?

Or is this a totally exceptional thing: she is "the most" highly favored woman (more highly favored than Even in Eden!); the Lord is already with her, and the Lord is so fully there--- she is like the Ark of the Covenant, His Presence and His Shekinah are with her --- and so intimately, that she is going to get pregnant with His Son!

Another simple adjectival phrase... :o)

You know, this is all prefigured in the OT by the Ark of the Covenant. And sinners couldn't touch that --- as you remember ---

The Most High dwells with the pure, an only the pure. Sinful things cannot abide in His presence.

I said I've got to get going. Good discussion. God bless you! G'bye!

139 posted on 10/07/2010 7:06:15 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Behold, all generations will call me Blessed; for He who is Mighty has done great things for me.")
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