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To: Alex Murphy

I’m curious about James and Judas (the Judas mentioned in Acts) - weren’t they Jesus’ half-brothers? My understanding is that Jesus was sired by God through Mary, and that James and Judas were sired by Joseph through her...how does that reconcile with perpetual virginity?


11 posted on 10/06/2010 8:07:45 AM PDT by nysuperdoodle
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To: nysuperdoodle

That’s a common mistake, caused by the fact that the terms “brother” and “sister” in the New Testament simply do not mean what we mean by those terms. They also denote various degrees of cousin-hood or in-law relation.

For instance: James, Joseph/Joses, Simon and Judas/Jude are not sons of the Virgin Mary but of Clopas and his wife Mary/Maria.

Mary the wife of Clopas is the “sister” of Mary the mother of Jesus, which makes the “brothers” actually Jesus’ cousins (or possibly even more distant relatives).

In another place, St Paul refers to the apostle James as the Brother of the Lord - but this James is the son of Alphaeus, not the son of Mary or Joseph.

The key to all this confusion: the New Testament wasn’t written in Modern English. Most translations use “brother” when (if they had been written for modern sensibilities) they should have used some word like “relative”.


29 posted on 10/06/2010 8:24:05 AM PDT by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
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To: nysuperdoodle

Is that true, about His half-brothers?


31 posted on 10/06/2010 8:25:44 AM PDT by stuartcr (Nancy Pelosi-Super MILF.................................Moron I'd Like to Forget)
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To: nysuperdoodle

Here is a Catholic view with scripture:Mary is Ever Virgin

Exodus 13:2,12 - Jesus is sometimes referred to as the “first-born” son of Mary. But “first-born” is a common Jewish expression meaning the first child to open the womb. It has nothing to do the mother having future children.

Exodus 34:20 - under the Mosaic law, the “first-born” son had to be sanctified. “First-born” status does not require a “second” born.

Ezek. 44:2 - Ezekiel prophesies that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world. This is a prophecy of Mary’s perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.

Mark 6:3 - Jesus was always referred to as “the” son of Mary, not “a” son of Mary. Also “brothers” could have theoretically been Joseph’s children from a former marriage that was dissolved by death. However, it is most likely, perhaps most certainly, that Joseph was a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God.

Luke 1:31,34 - the angel tells Mary that you “will” conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, “How shall this be?” Mary’s response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.

Luke 2:41-51 - in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.

John 7:3-4; Mark 3:21 - we see that younger “brothers” were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus’ biological brothers.

John 19:26-27 - it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers.

John 19:25 - the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary.

Matt. 27:61, 28:1 - Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as “the other Mary.”

Matt. 27:56; Mark 15:47 - Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.

Mark 6:3 - James and Joseph are called the “brothers” of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins.

Matt. 10:3 - James is also called the son of “Alpheus.” This does not disprove that James is the son of Clopas. The name Alpheus may be Aramaic for Clopas, or James took a Greek name like Saul (Paul), or Mary remarried a man named Alpheus.

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V. Jesus’ “Brothers” (adelphoi)) = Cousins or Kinsmen

Luke 1:36 - Elizabeth is Mary’s kinswoman. Some Bibles translate kinswoman as “cousin,” but this is an improper translation because in Hebrew and Aramaic, there is no word for “cousin.”

Luke 22:32 - Jesus tells Peter to strengthen his “brethren.” In this case, we clearly see Jesus using “brethren” to refer to the other apostles, not his biological brothers.

Acts 1:12-15 - the gathering of Jesus’ “brothers” amounts to about 120. That is a lot of “brothers.” Brother means kinsmen in Hebrew.

Acts 7:26; 11:1; 13:15,38; 15:3,23,32; 28:17,21 - these are some of many other examples where “brethren” does not mean blood relations.

Rom. 9:3 - Paul uses “brethren” and “kinsmen” interchangeably. “Brothers” of Jesus does not prove Mary had other children.

Gen. 11:26-28 - Lot is Abraham’s nephew (”anepsios”) / Gen. 13:8; 14:14,16 - Lot is still called Abraham’s brother (adelphos”) . This proves that, although a Greek word for cousin is “anepsios,” Scripture also uses “adelphos” to describe a cousin.

Gen. 29:15 - Laban calls Jacob is “brother” even though Jacob is his nephew. Again, this proves that brother means kinsmen or cousin.

Deut. 23:7; 1 Chron. 15:5-18; Jer. 34:9; Neh. 5:7 -”brethren” means kinsmen. Hebrew and Aramaic have no word for “cousin.”

2 Sam. 1:26; 1 Kings 9:13, 20:32 - here we see that “brethren” can even be one who is unrelated (no bloodline), such as a friend.

2 Kings 10:13-14 - King Ahaziah’s 42 “brethren” were really his kinsmen.

1 Chron. 23:21-22 - Eleazar’s daughters married their “brethren” who were really their cousins.

Neh. 4:14; 5:1,5,8,10,14 - these are more examples of “brothers” meaning “cousins” or “kinsmen.”

Tobit 5:11 - Tobit asks Azarias to identify himself and his people, but still calls him “brother.”

Amos 1: 9 - brotherhood can also mean an ally (where there is no bloodline).


48 posted on 10/06/2010 8:46:56 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: nysuperdoodle
I’m curious about James and Judas (the Judas mentioned in Acts) - weren’t they Jesus’ half-brothers? My understanding is that Jesus was sired by God through Mary, and that James and Judas were sired by Joseph through her...how does that reconcile with perpetual virginity?

I asked the same question. Someone said that Catholics believe they are either his step-brothers (Joseph's sons from a previous marriage) or his cousins - kinsmen but not brothers. I don't buy it, but that is what was said.

55 posted on 10/06/2010 9:06:07 AM PDT by CA Conservative
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To: nysuperdoodle
I’m curious about James and Judas (the Judas mentioned in Acts) - weren’t they Jesus’ half-brothers?

Judas is described as James' son in Acts 1:13, so we can safely discard the possibility that James and Judas were both half-brothers to anyone. Meanwhile, Judas describes himself in his own epistle as James' "brother", demonstrating that the word "brother" had a lot of fluidity in Hebraic usage, whether Greek or Hebrew was the actual language of composition.

And James' father is specified in Scripture, and it's not Joseph. His name is Alphaeus, who may be the same person as Clopas (a Hebrew/Greek name dualism, like Saul/Paul).

The Lutheran scholar Joachim Jeremias demolishes all "Mary had other children" arguments by pointing out that Jesus gave Mary to John on the cross. Unless you want to argue that all of Jesus' alleged siblings predeceased him, then either Mary had no other children, or Jesus sinned by absolving his siblings of their duty to care for Mary under the Torah commandment.

78 posted on 10/06/2010 10:09:46 AM PDT by Campion
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To: nysuperdoodle
My understanding is that Jesus was sired by God through Mary,

Does it ever dawn on Christians that this is weird? Or immoral? G-d sires a child with a mortal woman? A woman he is not married to? (fornication) A woman that is betrothed to another? (adultery) Many pagan gods were born of a virgin and this is another case of a Grecco-Roman man-god myth.

Virgin Birth Truth Part 1

Virgin Birth Truth Part 2

87 posted on 10/06/2010 10:34:40 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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