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To: SZonian
[SZonian snarks]

Therein lies the danger in not keeping scripture in context.

[Stourme chuckles]

No, there in lies the danger of the Evangelical Wash Cycle(TM)

Put the scripture into the EWC and hope it comes out spun to something more palatable.

You quoted it ... but you didn't read it.

Amos

 11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
 
There was always a prophet on the earth from the time of Adam down to Jesus Christ. The words of the Lord could be found on the earth until after Apostles were killed. -and John was taken into heaven. Which started the dark ages.
 
And the dark ages officially ended when?.... 1830. Imagine that.
 
Amos 11 & 12 sets the real time frame of the rest of the chapter.
 
Modern christianity avoids the discussion of 11 & 12 like the plague. Amos prophesies of time when there is no prophet on the earth. -that's been only one time in history.

837 posted on 10/05/2010 8:18:32 PM PDT by Stourme
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To: Stourme
You follow a divination peepstone conman, sexual predator, and gross liar, and you think folks will take your teaching as credible? What was God's father's name, Mormon? Who was Jesus and Lucifer's mother goddess, Mormon? How many wives and children did Jesus sire, Mormon? Do you know your own religion's leadership DOCTRINE? Would you like to teach us about Mormon eternal progression? ...

Eternal Progression Data:
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/etimplications.htm

The Implications of
Mormon Eternal Progression
© Spotlight Ministries, Vincent McCann, 2003
www.spotlightministries.org.uk

The Mormon doctrine of eternal progression teaches that God the Father was once a man, who progressed to Godhood through obedience to certain laws and ordinances. Part of this obedience involved getting married to a woman ("The Heavenly Mother"), who gives birth to God’s spirit children, who are sent to earth to inhabit bodies of flesh and bone. These spirit children, if they are Mormons, remain obedient to the laws of the Mormon Church, and are married in the Mormon temple, have the potential to become gods themselves. They will produce spirit children and rule their own planet. This process is then repeated.

The logical implications of this are as follows:
--The present God the Father and Heavenly Mother would themselves have had a Heavenly Father and Mother in existence before them, and they a Heavenly Father and Mother before them, and so on and so fourth. Indeed, not only does this logically follow through in Mormon theology, but many LDS leaders have specifically taught that the present God and Father had a Father above Him, and He above Him, etc. 1
--God the Father would have had to worship and pray to His God and Father as we do to Him.
--If the present God and Father of this planet is worshipped and prayed to by His spirit children, and if Mormon males hope to become gods in the same way, their spirit children would likewise pray to and worship them!
[At this point it is worth bearing in mind that the Bible says nothing about an infinite number of god’s past and god’s to come. On the contrary, Isaiah 43:10 is very clear when God states: "Before me no God was formed and neither will there be one after me." There was no god before God and there will certainly be no gods after Him. He is "the God of gods" (Deut. 10:17; Ps. 136:2; Dan. 2:4, 11:36). That is to say, although there are certainly so called "gods" in existence (1 Cor. 8:5), they are not true God by nature (Gal. 4:8). There is only one true God (John 17:3). ]
--If temple marriage is essential to becoming a god, as Mormons claim, then God the Father would likewise have been required to be married in a temple. Of course, there is nothing at all about this in the Bible.
--Jesus would have to have been married in a temple, otherwise He could not have been exalted and become a god (Christians believe He was always God, and not a god, but The God.). There is nothing at all in the Bible about Jesus being married in a temple, or even married outside a temple. Indeed, the Biblical temples were not even used for temple marriage, but for purification rites, and animal sacrifices.
--Some LDS leaders have not only taught that Jesus was married, but that He was a polygamist! 2
--If families are to be sealed in the temple as a family unit, to be a "family forever", what if one of those family members does not remain obedient to the Mormon faith? How can they remain together as a family, if some members of that family are disobedient?
--Bill McKeever of Mormonism Researched Ministry makes an interesting observation about eternal families. He asks how it can be that a Mormon family can stay together forever in eternity if, for example, the children of that family go on to become gods themselves and rule their own planets? Those family members could not be together if they are each ruling their own planets.

Footnotes

1. "We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).
"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith.... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries.... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).

2."Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).
"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).
"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).
"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346). "One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).

More to follow …

ETERNAL PROGRESSION
by Lisa Ramsey Adams

The principle of eternal progression cannot be precisely defined or comprehended, yet it is fundamental to the LDS worldview. The phrase "eternal progression" first occurs in the discourses of Brigham Young. It embodies many concepts taught by Joseph Smith, especially in his King Follett discourse. It is based on the proposition that "there is no such thing as principle, power, wisdom, knowledge, life, position, or anything that can be imagined, that remains stationary—they must increase or decrease" (Young, JD 1:350).

Progression takes many forms. In one sense, eternal progression refers to everything that people learn and experience by their choices as they progress from premortal life, to mortality, to postmortal spirit life, and to a resurrected state in the presence of God.

Personal progression is possible in each of these states, but not the same kind of progression. Progression apparently occurred in the premortal life, for most spirits there chose to follow Christ and some were noble and great, while others chose to follow Lucifer. Entering mortality affords opportunities for further progression. Obtaining a physical body is a crucial step, enabling a person to experience physical sensations of all kinds and to progress in knowledge and understanding, all of which will rise with the person in the Resurrection (D&C 130:18). Brigham Young taught that even in mortality, "We are in eternity" (JD 10:22), and the object of this existence is "to learn to enjoy more, and to increase in knowledge and experience" (JD 14:228). "When we have learned to live according to the full value of the life we now possess, we are prepared for further advancement in the scale of eternal progression—for a more glorious and exalted sphere" (JD 9:168).

Life is never static. "One must progress or retrograde. One cannot stand still. Activity is the law of growth, and growth, progress, is the law of life" (A. Bowen, in Christ's Ideals for Living, O. Tanner, ed., Salt Lake City, 1980, p. 368). A person's attitude about ""eternal progression' will largely determine his philosophy of life…exalting, increasing, expanding and extending broader and broader until we can know as we are known, see as we are seen" (Young, JD 16:165).

At the Resurrection and Judgment, people will be assigned a degree of glory. Further progress is believed possible within each degree. Marriage and family life, however, continue only in the Celestial Kingdom, allowing "eternal increase" through having spirit children (see Eternal Lives, Eternal Increase). "All this and more that cannot enter into our hearts to conceive is promised to the faithful, and are but so many stages in that ceaseless progression of eternal lives" (Young, JD 10:5).

No official Church teaching attempts to specify all the ways in which God progresses in his exalted spheres; "there is no end to [His] works, neither to [His] words" (Moses 1:38). God's glory and power are enhanced as his children progress in glory and power (see Moses 1:39; Young, JD 10:5). Ideas have been advanced to explain how God might progress in knowledge and still be perfect and know all things (see Foreknowledge of God; Omnipotent God).

The concept of eternal progression is a salient feature of the gospel of Jesus Christ, readily distinguishable from traditional Christian theology. The philosophical views of the Middle Ages were basically incompatible with such a concept, and the idea of progress that emerged in the eighteenth-century Enlightenment was that of social evolution (Bury, The Idea of Progress, London, 1932). The traditional Christian view has held that those in heaven enter "a state of eternal, inactive joy. In the presence of God they would worship him and sing praises to him eternally, but nothing more" (Widtsoe, p. 142). Latter-day Saints, however, constantly seek personal and righteous improvement not only by establishing Zion in this world, but by anticipating the continuation of progression eternally.

Bibliography
Widtsoe, John A. "Is Progress Eternal or Is There Progress in Heaven?" IE 54 (Mar. 1951):142; see also Evidences and Reconciliations, pp. 179-85, Salt Lake City, 1960.
Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 1, Eternal Progression Copyright © 1992 by Macmillan Publishing Company

Your 'prophets' are quoted in the footnotes above. Do you support their assertions, Mormon? Do you really believe polytheism is fundamental Christian doctrine, Mormon?

841 posted on 10/05/2010 8:30:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Stourme

Typical apologist, ignore, spin, parse, obfuscate, omit, deflect etc.
What is it with you guys? You can’t even carry on a conversation or even make an attempt at discussion without being puerile and making it personal. What a sorry lot.


844 posted on 10/05/2010 8:34:33 PM PDT by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: Stourme; SZonian; Godzilla; reaganaut
And the dark ages officially ended when?.... 1830. Imagine that.

Huh? Um, the dark ages ended with the Renaissance in the 14th Century.

By 1830 we were at the general end of the First Industrial Revolution...

So, yeah, you did imagine that...

848 posted on 10/05/2010 8:41:14 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Stourme

Read on...

It should also be noted that Amos preached about two years before a very large earthquake, and made reference to it twice in his book. Zechariah remembers this earthquake over 200 years later (Zech 14:5).


894 posted on 10/06/2010 5:46:29 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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