Posted on 09/27/2010 6:17:08 PM PDT by bibletruth
Let's start by observing the Scriptures in John
Let's start by observing the Scriptures in John, and then move onto Christ's preeminence:
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with WATER, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth WITH THE HOLY GHOST.
The Apostle John identifies the ONE who will baptise with the Holy Ghost / Spirit:
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
So, if now, there is no other baptism than a water baptism; then either John is a liar or God is a liar...God Forbid!
Clearly now it is most probable, based upon Scripture in the Word of God in John, that the baptism which the Apostle Paul mentioned in Romans 6, is the baptism which the Apostle John in John 1 mentioned.
Note, however, that John's words are not his own words, but they are the very Words of God; therefore, we should tread lightly upon them these Words of God.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were [Spirit] baptized into Jesus Christ were [Spirit] baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by [Spirit] baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
The Old Testament has many baptisms, some record over six different types of baptisms. The primary baptism of the Jewish Old Testament is baptism by means of water. If some so called "church" today practices primarily water baptism, then that "church" is practicing Jewish baptism, which is exactly what Peter performed on Acts 2:38 on Cornelius the Roman Centurion; whom was baptised in the classic Jewish Old Testament and Gospel means. Which is perfectly correct for that dispensation. But following, then, is Paul's conversion in Acts 9 and then if we continue that practice; is in then the wrong dispensation...today's baptism is by God's Holy Spirit in Romans 6.
Christ is the head of the Body of Christ - all true believers. And Christ is the head of the church - all true believers. This is Biblical as seen in Colossians:
Colossians 1:18 And he [Christ] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
If you deny that Christ is the head of the Body, the Church, which is HIS body; then you have denied HIS preeminence - God Forbid! Never I'm my former sinner's life would I even contemplate to deny HIS preeminence. Or maybe you think that your church has replaced Christ's preeminence; but in so thinking, you have denied the preeminence of Christ as Head over the Church and you have made preeminence out of a building, rather than the glory of Christ's preeminence!
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Christ is the head of the Church, which is the Body of Christ consisting of true Bible believing Christians.
Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him [Christ] in all things, which is the head, even Christ.
There are way too many Scriptures to deny that Christ is the head of the Church.
Had the man on the cross next to Jesus been Baptized?
From what I’ve read, Jesus didn’t care so much for all the legalisms.
And for what it’s worth, I have been baptized.
No. Come on, does this one special case where a man who was condemned to death; and prior to the penalty of the cross, and who never heard nor believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, can we now legitimately make a major case for water baptism for this individual. Should all of history stop for a brief moment to let this prisoner down to get water baptized and then continue his penalty on the Roman cross!
Regarding legalism of the Pharisees and Sadducees:
Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Unfortunately, that is where legalism take anyone who continues in practicing legalism, then and now...
Today, we are saved by Grace, not by works of the Law.
Could you clarify who is qualified to participate in this caucus thread? People who believe the kjv is the ONLY accurate translation? People who participate must stick to kjv quotations? etc.
If I translate directly from Greek, am I barred? How does your designation work?
Baptism is like the reception AFTER the wedding.
Baptism does not save anybody, but it is a sign of acceptance of salvation.
Actually, baptism is when the believer receives their priesthood.
If you are really interested in what the New Testament says learn Koine Greek and read the original document. Note: When you know what the New Testament says, it doesn’t imply that you will know what it means. The Greek verb Bastimo means I dip.
Read the scriptures in their original languages to understand as best you can.
For me, every time I take communion, it is a re-baptism of Spirit.
In what edition of the KJV are the words in red found?
My God is not a petty God.
I believe I am agreeing with you on most everything.
It’s a metaphor. You are baptized in Christ but the physical act doesn’t make anything complete.
When being baptized in church, you are at once proclaiming your salvation, baring witness of your acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Savior and the change in spirit’s intent from now on.
I like that metaphor. I am going to use that.
Thanks.
How can a Mass communion re-baptism someone who is a faithful believer: If a Mass communion re-baptizes, then it logically follows that it also crucifies again afresh (again).
As is recorded in Hebrews 6:6 “seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh (via the Mass), and put him to an open shame...
The offering of the body of Jesus Christ was once for all time: Hebrews 10:10
Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Today, some priests continue to offer daily offerings:
Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
I'm happy to be sanctified once for all by the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Now consider Hebrews in context:
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
The New Testament and only when Jesus spoke.
You are not barred. You are welcome. I only wish to communicate the grace of God and salvation by grace apart from works of the Law.
I think tired&retired meant re-dedicated.
From what I’ve read, Jesus didn’t care so much for all the legalisms.
The scribes and Pharisees tried to impress Jesus with their legalisms and rituals. He wasn’t overly impressed. Jesus was/is “not of this world.”
Jesus knows our hearts.
My post does not mean that I am implying that Bibletruth wrong either.
I’m not quite sure of your point Campion, but I think we’re in the same boat. Bibletruth: I think the following verses from Acts pretty well debunk your theory, demonstrating that baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are two different things.
Philip was preaching the Gospel in Samaria and obviously had the authority to baptize. He did not have the authority to give the Holy Ghost. Hence Philip told those whom he had baptized to go see Peter and John, who were authorized to give the converts the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:12-20
12. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16. (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17. Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19. Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Baptism does not save anybody, but it is a sign of acceptance of salvation.
Baptism is a "sign of the parousia of the spirit in judgment". Chew on that for a while. :-)
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