Posted on 09/27/2010 6:17:08 PM PDT by bibletruth
Let's start by observing the Scriptures in John
both no = both know
Thanks for your thoughts....
WE have walked all around this subject, but to cut to the quick, let us look at the earlier statement - about what God has done. Note that in your “list” nowhere is propitiation - that is, the assignment of each person’s guilt to the record of Jesus, who died for us sinners.
This is the exchange (the work) of salvation. It is a free gift of God. Jesus did it, and unlike some believe, his death was enough for the Whole world (John 3:16). But if we leave out the will of man (and become 5 point Calvinists) we have to essentially remove free will.
At issue is how do we move from the unsaved to the saved?
We achieve salvation by accepting the gif. (I don’t think accepting a gift is defined as “work” by anyone). One we accept it, we are regenerated, and our nature begins to change, to one of obedience to God, as evidenced (hopefully first) by our baptism.
Have you ever given someone a precious gift, and they won’t accept it? This is because they are in a bad relationship with you. There is emnity between them and you. This is the state of the unrepentant man. He would rather go his own way than accept God’s salvation.
I agree with your last paragraph 100%
That is because the question I asked was 'what does man do to be saved'. We will continue to "walk all around the subject" if we can't stay on the question asked.
"At issue is how do we move from the unsaved to the saved?"
Yes! Than is the key to understanding baptism. God determines that point of salvation. God is the One that transfers us from out of darkness into Christ by His will and through His unbreakable promises. To argue against His point of salvation is to fight with Him and His word.
Let me move on from
1) HE COMMANDED baptism and the consequence of man ignoring or devaluing His command. Heb 5:9, John 14:15, I John 2:4
2) from the fact that baptism is clearly connected with salvation by Christ Himself, and His statement is either the truth or it is a lie, but it can't be both. Mark 16:16
3) from the fact that Peter taught that baptism was connected to salvation Act 2:38, I Peter 3:21.
4) from the fact that many here still hang on the false assumption that baptism is a work of man. I have demonstrated through the scripture that it is in fact a work of God Himself. Col 2:16 Therefore removing the flawed argument that baptism is 'our work' and proving Eph 2:8,9 does not address baptism because it is not a work of man. Flawed filters give flawed conclusions. See for yourself and from your own lips, "I don’t think accepting a gift is defined as “work” by anyone" Yet that is exactly what you have lowered baptism to. Consider the KJV use of "operation" in Col. The patient's job in a operation is to be there. To submit. Luke 7:30 "But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."
Let's move on from these and look at your question, "At issue is how do we move from the unsaved to the saved?"
This will require some logic and love of the truth. The point fixed by God for our salvation is easily determined by looking at the benefits of salvation. We go from darkness to light. We go from lost to saved. We go from unforgiven to forgiven. We go from being outside of Christ to In Christ. So far so good?
We learn from Eph 1:3 that every spiritual gift is found in Christ. Key word here is EVERY. That must mean that no spiritual gift can occur outside of Christ. Let's look at Paul. He did it all in Acts 9. Confessed Christ as Lord vs 5, he had a conversation with Christ Himself vs4-6, he was told what he must do vs6, fasted 3 days vs9, he prayed for 3 days vs11, he had a miracle worked on him vs18.
Now in all of this we see that Paul, note after praying 3 days, still had his sin. Eph 1:3 How do we know? Act 22:16 tells us the purpose/reason Paul was baptized. It was for the forgiveness of sin. Now tell me how Paul was in Christ and not forgiven of his sins? Baptism is for the forgiveness of sin. Peter says it, Paul says it and Ananias says it. Again how is one saved with out the forgiveness of sin? That is why Paul through the Spirit say " Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?" In Christ is where forgiveness is. Eph 1:3 Paul says it again in Gal 3:27 "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
"One we accept it..." Yes by submitting to His operation. "we are regenerated" Yes Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Paul says the new life is a result of baptism.
"He would rather go his own way than accept God’s salvation." Sad but true.
Great to see a fellow right divider. Keep it up!
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