Sex Abuse Lawsuit Moving to Subpoena the Pope

The Eponymous Flower ^ | 09/24/2010 | Tancred

[0beron]

Jeff Anderson keeps pushing this case, which he released initially in the New York Times. In the course of promoting his interests, and those of the people behind him at the ACLU, he is attempting to summon Pope Benedict to the stand where he wants to "cross examine" the Pontiff. Jeff Anderson isn't interested in the welfare of the victims, he's interested in the same agenda that two Belgian Bishops, a Viennese Cardinal, a smutty Romance Novelist, However, the case in Kentucky, naming the Pope has been dropped. Actually, in fairness to Father Greeley, the author of pornographic novels he is, he says celibacy isn't the cause of the problem, only the "clerical secrecy" and so forth, as he parrots the same line used by Comrade Jeff Anderson and his professional help, Richard Sipe, who's spent years investigating the problem, but is driven by the same agenda that motivates Jeff Anderson, an ACLU lackey.

[bibletruth]

So the Catholic's say - "celibacy isn't the cause of the problem, only the "clerical secrecy"...

While I never agree with the Christ Rejecting ACLU...but nevertheless...

I have researched Catholic clerical secrecy and found in hard to find places history records of Catholic's performing sexual practices in secrecy for centuries - however, hidden in secrecy for centuries... and not revealed to the public in general. This problem is not going away...

The current and future Catholic seminary colleges are known to have many, many homosexual "gay" seminaries in attendance... this problem will never go away as long as the Catholics promote false doctrine teaching about grace from our Lord Jesus Christ and NOT disseminated from Mary via Jesus; Mary was a sinner just like you and me; and Mary herself said that she needed a savior - right there in the Bible Scriptures for all to see except the Catholics.

[0beron]

The homosexual problem is one aided and abetted by other senior homosexual clergy who are, you guessed it, liberals who have more in common with the ACLU than they do with the Catholic Church.

There are quite a few priests and bishops who don’t quite agree with what the Church teaches on a wide range of issues, like the two mentioned from Belgium who are arguing against clerical celibacy, who are a big part of the problem.

And guess what, the protestants have all kinds of rot on their hands too.

[bibletruth]

of course...protestants... are not perfect... but forgiven

For all come short of the Glory of God, for all have sinned.

But at least the protestants... have the grace of God distributed directly by the LORD Jesus Christ and salvation by grace and not works of the law, which are impossible to complete all works of the law, for there is no salvation in works of the law, as our Apostle Paul wrote. Christ Jesus has completed the law, and imparted this completion unto grace believers, so we too have fulfilled the law by that which Christ freely imputed upon us.

[narses]

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[SumProVita]

Screwtape is extremely active these days.

[Minn]

Those dirty Papists.

[Cronos]

The % of abuse cases is about the same as in the normal population —> celibacy is not the cause of this.

[Cronos]

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;

Psa 1:2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night

The process of Salvation is by grace -- that is Church teaching. It teaches that we can do nothing to merit the grace that comes to us in baptism, which is the normal beginning of the Christian life. In fact, the Council of Trent condemned anyone who taught that we can save ourselves or who taught even that God helps us do what we could do for ourselves. The Church teaches that we can be saved only by God’s grace.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12) yet In Galatians 2:15–16, Paul says, "We ourselves . . .who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified."

Following Paul, the Catholic Church teaches that justification comes by faith. Only it says that it doesn’t come through faith alone. If you look carefully at Paul’s writings, you will notice that he never says that our righteousness comes from faith alone—only that it comes from faith apart from works.

+Paul's words do not contradict +James in 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." The Bible cannot contradict itself, hence both the Apostles mean two different things by the word works. When Paul uses it he means the Old Testament Law (works of the law). he says in Galatians 5:2, "Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you." Paul’s opponents in Galatia wanted to bring the Gentile Christians back into the Old Testament law. These are the works of the law that Paul is fighting against, and they have no place in our justification. Paul is saying in essence that Gentile Christians do not have to be circumcised and live like Jewish Christians in order to be saved.

+Paul writes the command to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Gal. 5:14). He then explains that we must show the "fruit of the Spirit" (Gal 5:16–26) and bear one another’s burdens (Gal. 6:1ff) as a way of fulfilling the "law of Christ" (Gal. 6:2). All Paul’s teaching comes down to this: Our own works can never justify us, but works that grow out of faith in Christ are part of our justification. That’s why Paul says in Philippians 2:12 you must "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." And that squares with James’s teaching that works that grow from faith justify.

So, while +Paul says Abraham was not justified by works but by faith, +JAmes says "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?

You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works
A man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:21-22).

Paul means that Abraham was not justified by keeping the Old Testament law, while James means that Abraham was justified by doing a work that grew out of his faith in God.

[bronx2]

Read James 2 14:22 and disabuse yourself of this prideful interpretation of scripture. It appears the interpretations of sacred scripture presented leave much to be desired.

There is an active thread on this forum currently close to having 7000 separate posts occasioned by those exhibiting erroneous understanding of scripture. Pray to the Spirit that you do not evolve into one of the pagans challenged to comprehend word of God.

Accept Jesus as your personal savior.

[Campion]

of course...protestants... are not perfect... but forgiven

So Protestants' sins are excused, but Catholics' sins aren't?

salvation by grace and not works of the law, which are impossible to complete all works of the law, for there is no salvation in works of the law

That's correct. In fact, the first canon on justification of the Council of Trent pronounced an anathema on anyone who said otherwise. Salvation entirely through grace, and cannot be earned by anyone. That's Catholic dogma.

[bkaycee]

Faith and Works?

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:16"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 4:13Jesus said to her, "Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks (FAITH metaphor) of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 5:21 also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" 29Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."

John 6: 40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

John 7:"If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, 'Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'" Notice the metaphor for belief, drinking.

John 8:24I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."

John 10:7So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture

John 11: 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.

John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Rom.9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."

Rom.10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." You cannot MIX Grace(unmerited Favor) and Works, without DESTROYING GRACE, because it becomes MERIT.

Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9 Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

[bronx2]

Your litany of bible cites , does not in any manner provide adequate explanations of James 2 14:21. Reading and interpreting scripture is not about having more cites, it is about understanding the total essence of God's message especially when finding apparent contradictions.

It does not appear from your elementary response, citing extraneous bible verses, that the author possesses the requisite spiritual adroitness to effect the task of correct interpretation. . The causative factor is perhaps a lack of indwelling of the Spirit within the consciousness.

Before listing a series of bible verses which do not explain a verse under consideration it might be well to pray for guidance of the Spirit if He so desires to afford you this privilege.

God bless

[bkaycee]

Your litany of bible cites , does not in any manner provide adequate explanations of James 2 14:21. Reading and interpreting scripture is not about having more cites, it is about understanding the total essence of God's message especially when finding apparent contradictions.

Oh, I am sorry, I was not trying exegete the James passage, just showing that the vast majority of passages that do not line up with your private interpretation of James.

Here is what James is talking about. James is answering those who CLAIM to have faith! James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Can THAT KIND of Faith save him? In fact this question IMPLIES only the Real Faith can save without anything else.

It does not say, "can such faith and works save him"?

If your life shows no change, your faith is dead, like a demons faith. Saving Faith will SHOW evidence of fruit/good works.

"You want us to believe in your CLAIM to faith? Humans can't see your Faith we can only see your fruit, and if you have Real Saving Faith, there WILL be fruit.

In other words, your only "Justified" in saying you have Faith (in our sight) if we can see your fruit, because we cannot see your faith.

This is a warning to those who fool themselves, believing they have faith, but it is only mental assent that produces no action/fruit/good works, not trust.

2 cor 5 "Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith."

James 2:23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"

[bronx2]

You have presented a flawed exegesis of James 14:21. When you state "The majority passages that do not line up with your private interpretation of James " you have made an Admission Against Self Interest conceding my point that private interpretation of scripture is wanting since there are an infinite variety of such interpretations. Yet, without a magisterium, nobody is present to correct and judge the usual prideful assertions bereft of supernatural guidance.

When you say a passage says this or that you are only rendering some flawed private, usually prideful interpretation, with no dispositive proof of it being a product of the indwelling of the Spirit.

Even the world of Caesar has recognized this inherent problem and established court systems to satisfy its obvious need.

Therefore, any interpretation you render will be questioned and given the poor excuse of an interpretation you just offered, it must be summarily denied by even the least knowledgeable Christian. Your post provides irrefutable evidence for the need of a magisterium , one devoid of private sinful interpretation.

God bless

[bkaycee]

Therefore, any interpretation you render will be questioned and given the poor excuse of an interpretation you just offered, it must be summarily denied by even the least knowledgeable Christian. Your post provides irrefutable evidence for the need of a magisterium , one devoid of private sinful interpretation.

I think the magesterium has left you high and dry on this verse as they have not infallibly defined the interpretation for James 2. In fact it has only defined an interpretation for a handful of verses.

Are you under the impression that the magesterium determines the meaning of a verse by means other than normal investigation and exegesis?

[bronx2]

It appears that private self serving interpretation has left you high and dry awash in a sea of sin and self worship.

Over its 2000 year history the Bride of Christ has interpreted and parsed each verse of scripture with sacred intellectual thoroughness. Its vast historical array of spirit inspired scholars/theologians has guided it through the worst of times. Apostolic succession and protection is its divine inheritance. .

Your assemblies , bereft of any indwelling of the Spirit, are spiritually bankrupt teetering on the brink of oblivion. Fractionalization is its historical curse not protection from the Spirit. Over 33000 discrete groups in the USA and growing in divisiveness.

Hey, this is not a franchise selling ice cream and striving for more varieties.

Remember there is only one variety of Jesus and it isn't the one you are marketing.