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To: Zionist Conspirator

You wrote:

“For some reason you seem to have missed a very important point I thought I had made. Genuine bumpkins exist in the Catholic Church by the thousands, but only because their ancestors were converted 1700 years ago. That is the only kind of Catholic bumpkin in existence. To be a Catholic bumpkin, one must be born one. On the other hand, to enter the Catholic Church, one must be an intellectual.”

And that is clearly untrue. Anyone who has ever met the people in the average RCIA class knows there are few intellectuals. I have met converts who barely got through school, but felt drawn to the faith.

“The study of Torah is a commandment.”

And taht doesn’t make it any less intellectual. The study of the faith is demanded of the faithful of the Catholic faith. Does that make it less intellectual as a pursuit?

“Chr*stianity simply has nothing complementary to Torah study.”

That makes no sense. If Torah is scripture, then the study of scripture is complementary.

“Torah is from Heaven, chr*stian intellectualism is from Greece and Rome.”

Scripture is from God. So is the Church. And Christian intellectualism is rooted in Judaism as much as anything Greek. Quite frankly ancient Rome has little to do with it other than as a systematizer. The Romans like things orderly.


20 posted on 09/14/2010 5:01:53 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998; wideawake
And that is clearly untrue. Anyone who has ever met the people in the average RCIA class knows there are few intellectuals. I have met converts who barely got through school, but felt drawn to the faith.

I respect your experiences.

Still, the fact remains that almost all contemporary Catholic "evangelism" and apologetics is aimed at people who reject the very idea of the events of the "old testament" as ever having actually happened. Courses, magazine articles, homilies, sermons, books, all assure the seeker that "we now know more than we used to" and that one need not reject the modern, "scientific" worldview.

There is NO similar assurance given to seekers who are comfortable with the pre-modern, pre-"scientific" worldview. No book or article or homily assures the seeker he need not accept evolution, or higher criticism, or that he reject any event of Genesis as mere allegory or parable, much less mythology. It simply isn't there. Because the current leadership of the church seem to think these people either don't have souls worth "saving" or that they simply don't have what it takes upstairs to hack it in such a glorious, intellectual church. These people have been, are being, and will continue to be written off by a church whose dioceses hypocritically proclaim respect for the "dignity of every human person" and demand love and compassion of "gay, bisexual, and transgendered persons." Gays aren't a problem. "Biblical literalists" are a problem. You think this doesn't send a message? You think there is no connection whatsoever to this attitude and the crisis in the Catholic Church today? Please. You can't possibly think such a thing. You're simply too honest.

I appreciate Bishop Vasa, and Hugh Owen, and Clement Butel, and Donal Anthony Foley, and Brian Harrison . . . believe me I do. But let's face facts. These men's writings are not promoted by the Catholic clerical or intellectual establishment. No "seeker" is going to be told to visit the Kolbe Center or given something to read by any of these people. They are pariahs. They are embarrassments. And they're not getting anywhere. They're losing. They're losing badly. They're being beaten like red-headed stepchildren. And I believe some of them are weakening (John McCarthy, Brian Harrison's colleague at the Roman Theological Forum, who has written anti-Darwin articles in the past, now rejects the "young earth" demanded by Biblical chronology as impossible to reconcile with the "evidence"). The Kolbe Center's site hasn't been updated in ages. No new "personal testimonies" have been added in longer than that. Meanwhile Scott Hahn and Karl Keating and Peter Stravinskas endorse the whole evolution/"it's only a parable" thing. Ignatius Press does also. Pope Benedict is an evolutionist. JPII was an evolutionist. JPI was an evolutionist. Paul VI was an evolutionist. John XXIII was an evolutionist. Pius XII was an evolutionist. Give it up. Throw in the towel. It's over.

No wonder Catholics don't engage in aggressive "door-knocking" campaigns. Most American chr*stians are too "feeble-minded" to accept the new reality. Let the Fundamentalist churches have these poor deluded souls, these spiritual/theological mongoloids who can't make it in "real religion." It's not the "one true church" but it's all they can handle. Let those brave souls who have the gray matter to handle nuclear physics make the effort to join the "one true church," which is apparently no longer universal.

I do not mean to quarrel with you and I hope I am making my point passionately but respectfully and without rancor or insult. From what you have written in the past I assume that you actually interpret Genesis very similarly to the way I do, but you fit in the Catholic Church precisely because you hold this as a personal opinion only that has not yet been decided and thus you have never promoted it very heavily. I apologize if I have misinterpreted your opinions.

Let's give it a rest. There are creationists and literalists in the Catholic Church but they are a dwindling minority with no influence. The Catholic Church as a whole simply does not care about this issue. And it hasn't in a very, very, very long time.

I am not among those "scientific creationists" who anticipate the scientific vindication of the historicity of Genesis for the very simple reason that so long as cosmogony is considered a legitimate field of scientific inquiry (rather than a matter of history and theology that can be known only by Divine Revelation) the very idea will be excluded by the very definition of the word "science." HOWEVER--should the day ever come when the whole naturalistic physical/biological worldview collapses in a heap of dust, I hope the Catholic Church won't rush in and beat its chest as having been "the only one" that stood against the tide. You, I, and everyone else know who has done that, and done it alone and against the ridicule of the entire world.

I am proud of my people. I am honored to have been born one of them.

21 posted on 09/14/2010 6:47:20 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Shabbat Shabbaton hi' lakhem ve`inniytem 'et-nafshoteykhem; chuqqat `olam.)
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