Posted on 09/02/2010 6:59:52 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Sometimes that can be lost in doctrinal affairs.
However note my words, the True Christ.
That day on Calvery the Thief was face to face with the Real Christ, and accepted his act of Grace. With that he was saved.
There have been other Christs that have been brought before us since. Following them gets you no where, no matter how much they look like the real thing.
We neither need or expect one.
We'll just continue to post various things from MORMON sources, and the chips will fall where they may.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
open threads on the Religion Forum are specifically for religious debate. Those who can't handle the debate should stay in the closed threads.
Your post is against the religion forum rule regarding "making it personal".
You're funny. Allow me to give you an illustration from football, now that college football kicked off yesterday and the NFL starts next week.
Let's say you're a college football coach. The play before you is the QB has the ball snapped over his head. He goes back, scoops up the ball, and decides to just go down with it, anyway with clear possession. But no ref blows the whistle.
Then, if 3-4 seconds later, a defender decides to take a cheap shot by plowing into the prone QB, a good football coach knows...
...(a) that it's not the ref's whistle that kills the play (except if it's an inadvertent whistle).
...(b) It won't matter if the ref blew the whistle or not for purposes of killing the play. The QB was already down -- by contact with the ground; therefore that's what killed the play. And defenders should have been taught by the football coach that a player clearly down on the ground is already down -- whether the whistle has been blown or not.
...(c) Since the QB had clear possession, the referee should penalize the defense 15 yds for a late hit. [It's not like the NFL, where you have to touch the player while down]
How does this illustration apply? Well you're contending that the doctrine wasn't there til some "official" came in and "officially" blew the whistle to determine the final result of the play. I'm saying, no, the play was already determined by the players themselves...the whistle is simply there for better order and safety reasons.
That's what "doctrine teachers" do. They've established a more systematic order and vied for a healthy orthodoxy. Just look at what Jesus' brothers said:
3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. (Jude 3)
Note the words "the faith" in this context = content. The body of belief. It was delivered and entrusted "ONCE for all". It wasn't professorially dredged up by doctrine teachers in the back-room lab! God delivered it!
Oh, sure, it wasn't "ordered" topically, librarian style. But God wasn't delivering encyclopedic volumes.
Allow me then to give a few more examples of how this was received: A man healed by Jesus didn't need to wait for the official doctrine teacher to declare that Jesus was a healer, and that healing was meant to be evidential that Jesus was the Messiah. Simply put, the healed man embraced Jesus as the Miracle-worker and often linked it to the work of the Messiah.
Let me give you another example, from "basic doctrine." Basic doctrine says there is "one God." Now, according to you, anybody would have had to wait for the "doctrine teachers" to get their class syllabus together on that question before it could have been taught & received.
Well, guess what Jesus' brother (James) said? You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. (James 2:19)
The angels-turned-demons didn't need to go to "official doctrine school" to learn your "official doctrine" of how many "official gods" exist. Guess what? They experienced the only true God in heaven. They experientially knew how many gods there were. One.
Yes, it's true that Mormons have flunked the most basic of all "doctrinal lessons" on how many gods exist. But it didn't matter if the demons had, or had not, gone to your official doctrinal university. The teaching -- that doctrine -- existed from eternity. It was delivered once and for all to the saints.
I don't care if you disagree with me. But let it be known to all that you hereby disagree with Jude.
Which simply makes the point: Jude was written about 35-40 years after the events on the cross. And Jude is among the earlier writings available to us now.
The mistake you're making is to assume that knowing doctrine is the same as believing in Jesus.
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. (John 5:39-40)
Doctrine helps us know things about God and the church, but it is not the same as a relationship with Christ. That's one of the lessons of the thief on the cross.
Did you not read everything I wrote?
Here I gave an example of angels-turned-demons who experientially knew there was one God, and did NOT need to attend your doctrinal university headed by the doctrinal sages who have doctorates in doctrines to know that.
And then you accuse me of thinking as "believing in Jesus" is the same as "knowing doctrine."
(Hmmm...anybody ever tell you that demons don't 'believe in Jesus' -- as in having a trusting relationship???)
So, know, I did not equate the two -- and if you had an ounce of discernment -- you would know that part of my post alone would have told you that.
Did you not read everything I wrote?
Here I gave an example of angels-turned-demons who experientially knew there was one God, and did NOT need to attend your doctrinal university headed by the doctrinal sages who have doctorates in doctrines to know that.
And then you accuse me of thinking as "believing in Jesus" is the same as "knowing doctrine."
(Hmmm...anybody ever tell you that demons don't 'believe in Jesus' -- as in having a trusting relationship???)
So, no, I did not equate the two -- and if you had an ounce of discernment -- you would know that part of my post alone would have told you that.
I might ask you the same.
bttt
Good morning Elsie ...
:)
Brilliant
Placemark
Several Christian leaders who were there are mow realizing they “were had” by Beck..
More and more will be admitting it this week etc as they wake up to the fact Becks rethoric was against the God of the Christian Bible..
His obvious blaspheme on his show shocked many..
What fellowship does Light have with Darkness ???
Some deceived idiots like Land of the SBC are hanging on to theirfussy burning feelings about Beck and his “revival”
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