Posted on 09/02/2010 6:59:52 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
In the days following Glenn Beck's highly publicized rally in Washington, D.C., conservative Christians have come out expressing their concern not over the increasingly popular broadcaster, but over the apparent confusion among Christ followers.
"There is something very strange going on here. I don't understand the disconnect on the part of Christians," said Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky.
Americans from across the country converged on the National Mall on Saturday for the "Restoring Honor" rally led by Fox News commentator Beck. Reports indicate that the event drew anywhere from 87,000 to 500,000 people. Beck, a Mormon, was joined by a diverse group of religious leaders – including evangelical Christians – as he called on America to turn back to God.
Mohler, one of the nation’s pre-eminent evangelical theologians, found that Beck's rally cries were resonating with many Christians.
"What concerned me about that event on the mall was not so much Glenn Beck and the politicians in the program; it was the picture of those religious leaders standing together," he said Tuesday on The Janet Mefferd Show.
During Saturday’s three-hour event, over 200 religious leaders stood behind Beck, linking arms at certain points. Dr. Richard Land, a well-known Southern Baptist, and Bishop Harry Jackson of Hope Christian Church in Maryland were among the conservative Christians standing there.
While Land does not agree with Beck's theology, he told National Public Radio that the event was about a deep concern of Americans that the country has taken "a fundamentally wrong turn and is headed in the wrong direction."
Jim Garlow, pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, Calif., who was also at the event, said the rally was about extolling virtue and honoring God.
And the event was evangelical in tone, he said in a commentary on CNN.
"Despite the pre-rally discussions of Beck’s Mormonism, the rally’s litany of evangelical speakers gave it the Jesus-centeredness of a Billy Graham Crusade. All theological references were clearly evangelical and biblically based," Garlow wrote.
After observing the rally, Mohler came away with a different take and a big concern.
"The bottom line is ... we've been used and we've allowed ourselves to be used at times by politicians and others who co-opted God talk," he said Tuesday on The Janet Mefferd Show.
"We (conservative Christians in America) … have just assumed that because they were using our language, they were talking about the same Gospel or talking about the same understanding of God or talking about the same theological structure and that's just not true," he stressed.
Mohler doesn't disagree on uniting with others on common concerns and moral convictions.
But he underscored the need to "distinguish that from standing together in the faith."
"One of the healthiest things that can happen among conservative Christians is the ability to recognize, to discern the difference between civil religion and authentic Christianity," he explained.
The conservative theologian said he and many other believers agree with Beck on many of his political views. He also expressed appreciation for how Beck identifies "many really horrible and very dangerous liberal ideas."
But "[j]ust to debunk liberal ideas does not give you then the authority to be taken at your word ... to be speaking truth when then you talk about the Gospel," he cautioned.
"We just have to be mature Christians [and say] 'let's look at the Scripture. Let's look at what is being said here. We have a problem."
Continuing, Mohler outlined the fact that Mormons hold to a very different understanding of God than that of Christian theism.
"We're talking about very different deities here," he said. "And I think many Christians just have no idea as they were watching that event."
"How many American Christians who are watching that (rally) and resonating with the call for spiritual revival know that the man who is up there speaking, using words about Gospel and God and all the rest, believes that there was a male and a female deity, that the Godhead is a reproductive pair, that eventually we will be divine ourselves if indeed we follow the path of righteousness?" Mohler added.
Since January, Beck has been working on the themes of faith, hope and charity. He said his aim is to restore history, honor, and "our faith" in the country.
The popular commentator has discussed the Gospel of Jesus Christ repeatedly on his television program, even using evangelical language such as atonement through the shed blood of Christ.
But Mohler commented, "That's bizarre language for a Mormon to be using in this light and to have evangelical Christians affirm that he's talking about the same Gospel we are ... it's the same language but it's not the same Gospel."
What both Mohler and Mefferd believe is happening is spiritual rallying on vague terms.
"When we see some of the talk that has come out of the rally and some of the people associated with the rally, all about God, God, God, I just have really strongly felt that it needs to be a very precise definition when we bring God into the discussion on anything," radio host Mefferd stated.
Mohler described the scenario as having all the cards on the table but turned over so that the faces are not seen.
"You're having the language, but you're not having the definitions here," he noted.
"It really is not so much a concern politically, it's a concern theologically. If we are Christians, we have to understand the name of God is not just some kind of generic noun we can throw around."
While Mohler recognized that some Christians would be irritated listening to his take on Beck and the rally, the theologian hopes they'll be irritated enough to go and look at Scripture.
Amid the theological ambiguity and confusion, Mohler reminded Christians that a revival or spiritual renewal cannot happen without a heart that has known salvation through Jesus Christ.
"You can't have spiritual renewal where biblically speaking there's spiritual deadness," he said. "The reality is we can't biblically believe that they really know the one true and living God unless they know Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord."
Norm, you need to read Hinkley’s quote more closely, I provided an expanded citation. Hinkley defined the ‘Christ’ he was speaking of based upon Joseph Smith and his revelations - not the bible. That is a significant difference in definitions. AFA Christ defined in ‘non-biblical’ creeds, sorry no dice norm, those ‘creeds’ find their foundation in the NT, not extra biblical revelations and writings.
She insisted on having a family church..he could have taken her to the Catholic church, but obviously did not want to...
I do not buy books that are not Christian
Of course not....and apparent why they would not. Many would likely be out the door if truth be told. But they will never do so. Just as with all counterfeit religions...the leadership knows exactly how to keep the people in the dark while they continue with their agendas. Islam does this as well thru their Imams....who live a second life out of sight of their adherents...same with Mormonism...you will not see for they have their cause and efforts carefully orchestrated to keep the deception alive to their membership.
The question is not whether a particular church or set of churches recognizes a baptism.
The important question is whether or not God recognizes a baptism.
And that, of course, leads to the fundamental question:
Does the efficacy of baptism depend on which church performs it?
Or does the efficacy of baptism depend something between God and the individual being baptized?
Bingo
If that were true how would they tell the difference?
I believe that a "sincere" belief in Christ necessitates repentence. This is what Paul means he says you must accept him in your "heart". But your point is still well taken, repentence should be mentioned specifically when explaining the Gospel. Jesus' first sermon after being baptized was "repent and believe in the gospel."
ahhh, You quote your leaders saying they (lds) do not worship the Christ of the Bible, then tell me you (lds) worship the Christ of the Bible
That isn't what I asked. Mormonism is not even Christian so they aren't being baptised into Christianity.
"are there any Christian churches, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, or Protestant, that recognize Mormon baptism as a Christian baptism? I'm not aware of any."
The Jesus of scripture is not the spirit son of the father god and one of his wives. The Jesus of the bible is not the brother of Lucifer. The Jesus of the bible did not save men in the garden.
The mormon jesus has not likeness of the Jesus of the bible
Hi Godzilla,
We believe that Jesus Christ who appeared to Joseph Smith is the very same as we read about in the New Testament.
I understood your question. I'm challenging your assumptions by asking you a different question: do you think God cares which church does the baptizing?
Mormonism is not even Christian so they aren't being baptised into Christianity.
Sez you.
How he got there does not really matter.. he and his wife became mormons together he believes it now..he is temple worthy and wears the magic underwear.. he is not a Christian locked into Mormonism for others
He LOVES mormonism
he is not a Christian in drag
hear this video and see the tears on the death of the Mormon prophet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z58eHBnEHhk
The traditional Christ is certainly different from the Biblical Christ. He was referring to the Christ defined in non-biblical creeds that have become the tradition in much of Christianity.
Latter-day Saints believe firmly in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament.
I see we have a brand new word game afoot from mormonism....or is it just a repeat of the early "all creeds are abominable" mantra from Joseph Smith?
Norm, Christians recognize mormons' right to worship any imaginary version of "Christ" they wish to, but that doesn't make mormonism Christian any more than parking a curelom in the garage makes it a car!
Where is your source for this "Christ defined in non-biblical creeds"? The Religion Moderator is a stickler for sources.
But what you may not know is that what you heard and what he meant are two different things. Mormons use the same terms Christians use "salvation, faith, believe" ... but they do not have a Biblical understanding of their meaning; thus the abborant doctrine.
"Sez you"
Outside of the Mormon cult itself, who says differently? Mormonism is something that Christianity agrees on. Greek Orthodox, the Vatican, Protestant churches, as diverse as we think they are, they do agree that Mormonism isn't Christian, but is a different religion of it's own.
So basically you “love” our Mormon political allies so much that the fact they are walking blithely into the very arms of the Evil One himself is of no matter to you, nor the fate of those that they trick into their scam...
And I get called a bigot and a hater...
Wow...
The Jesus of the Christan Bible is not the jesus of the mormons..
The Jesus ot the Christians is ..
Jesus, who is Eternal..
Jesus who is from everlasting to everlasting..
Jesus the Alpha and Omega..
Jesus, the Lamb of God..
Jesus who is God...
Jesus the Word of God...
Jesus who is the Second person of the Trinity..
Jesus who is the ONLY Begotten Son of the Father...
Jesus who was born of a virgin who never had sex with man or mormon god...
Jesus who shed His saving Blood UPON THE CROSS to save us...
Jesus who died UPON THE CROSS to save us...
Jesus who rose again the third day to save us...
Jesus who is Lord of Lords and King of Kings...
Jesus whom the false prophety, joey Smith lied about...
Jesus who never lost or moved HIS Church from the Earth (and why on Earth would He ???)
Jesus the Righteous who has never needed any foul evil Joey Smith to restore HIS Church..
(Anyone saying that JOey Smith so called “restored” the Church that Jesus built is being “insulting, degrading and blasphemous” to Jesus)
Jesus whom Joey Smith the liar never met...
Jesus who destroyed Joey Smith..
Jesus who judged Joey Smith as an unbeliever an an enemy of God and the Church.....
Jesus who condemned the disgraceful unrepentant sinner, Joey Smith to Hell ...
Jesus who is Savior of the Christians as Joey Smith is the false savior of the mormons...
Jesus who will judge who gets into the Christian Heaven while Joey Smith who claimed falsely it would be him is screaming for help in Hell that he earned...
That Jesus...
Apologies R
The entity who appeared to Joseph Smith was and is not the Christ of the new testament but an impostor....Joseph Smith was well known to be involved with occult practices, a historical fact, and for doing so left himself wide open to demonic imposter's, influences and deceptions. Even his own family called him looney.....as well as some of his followers called him out on his practices.
Joseph Smiths writing's have been proved false, misleading and deceptive ever since he began... directly oppossing Christianity...as is also known and documented. These facts have been posted many times and yet not one Mormon has been able to debunk these facts.
Almost all Christian Churches do not include Mormonism as Christian....nor will they anytime soon, though the Mormon organization is trying very hard to turn it's membership toward inclusion with Christianity...and they are carrying that tune to any who will hear. But of course most Mormons are tired of being excluded and will say and do anything it's leadership dictates to have that inclusion. We see this playing out on these threads by the 'seasoned' Mormons carrying that banner....but it is not the banner of Jesus Christ they bare.....it is the counterfeit, impostor Christ.
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