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So God creates people that He knows will do something bad, and holds them responsible for those actions, so He can punish them for it and sacrifice other living creatures? And then sacrifices His son for the bad things that He knew men would do?

It's worse than that:

“Solomon also teaches us that not only was the destruction of the ungodly foreknown, but the ungodly themselves have been created for the specific purpose of perishing (Prov. 16:4).” (Calvin’s New Testament Commentaries: Romans and Thessalonians, pp.207-208)

"God made Adam and Eve to this very purpose, that they might be tempted and led into sin. And by force of his decree, it could not otherwise be but they must sin." (Piscatoris Dispute. Praedest., Praef., p. 6.)

"God foresees nothing but what he has decreed, and his decree precedes his knowledge." (Piscat. Disput. Praedest.)

"God of his own good pleasure ordains that many should be born, who are from the womb devoted to inevitable damnation. If any man pretend that God's foreknowledge lays them under no necessity of being dammed, but rather that he decreed their damnation because he foreknew their wickedness, I grant that God's foreknowledge alone lays no necessity on the creature; but eternal life and death depend on the will rather than the foreknowledge of God. If God only foreknew all things that relate to all men, and did not decree and ordain them also, then it might be inquired whether or no his foreknowledge necessitates the thing foreknown. But seeing he therefore foreknows all things that will come to pass, because he has decreed they shall come to pass, it is vain to contend about foreknowledge, since it so plain all things come to pass by God's positive decree." (Calv. Inst., b. 3, c. 23, s. 6.)

"God procures adultery, cursings, lyings." (Piscat. Responsio ad Apologiam Bertii.) "He supplies wicked men with opportunities of sinning, and inclines their hearts thereto. He blinds, deceives, and seduces them. He, by his working on their hearts, bends and stirs them up to do evil." (Pet. Martyr. Ver. Comment. in Rom., pp. 36, 413.) And thus "thieves, murderers, and other malefactors are God's instruments, which he uses to execute what he hath decreed in himself" (Calv. Inst., b. 1, c. 17, s. 5.)

"The devil and wicked men are so held in on every side with the hand of God, that they cannot conceive, or contrive, or execute any mischief, any farther than God himself doth not permit only, but command. Nor are they only held in fetters, but compelled also, as with a bridle, to perform obedience to those commands." (Calv. Inst., b. 1, c. 17, s. 11.)

"when God makes angels or men sin, he does not sin himself, because he does not break any law. For God is under no law, and therefore cannot sin." (Zuinglius in Serm. de Provid., c. 5, 6.)

I’m a little slow getting to read this thread, but I want to post a comment.

I believe that God created man knowing the end from the beginning. I believe he created man with free will knowing exactly what would happen. This allows him to have the one thing he could not specifically create — men and women that would willingly trust and follow him. If he created a world of people with no choice but to follow him, they would be nothing more than drones. Where would be the faith and trust or the voluntary submission to his will?

Just my two cents.

Stuart -

Just trying to relay what God says Himself. You are viewing through the eyes of one whose understanding is limited by a world of time, so you cannot comprehend. Scripture clearly shows that time is a temporary limitation that will someday apparently disapper. I view through the same eyes, but understand that if God is God, He must be so far beyond me that I cannot understand him. Time is one of the dimensions we live in. Top scientists say there may be another 5 dimensions outside of time. Einstein clearly saw that time was not what we think it is, but can be warped.

So what may appear from my (very) limited perspective, I can only trust what He does reveal about Himself to me. He asks me not to understand - I could only do that if I were His equal, and I am less than an atom compared to the Sun compared to Him. How dare I judge Him when He knows all, and my knowledge is so, so limited?

An atheist is a fool (says scripture) because he thinks that while he may possess only 1/1000 millionth of all the knowledge in the universe, his conclusion - on that tiny bit of knowledge - is that there absolutely is and can be no God. The agnostic is at least honest saying he does not know.

Your statement is fully understandable, and not new. Paul met such an argument and addressed it in Romans 9:18 - 23:

“So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?”

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?

Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.”

Faith is accepting what God says and believing it when we don’t understand it. Humility is required for faith, for I must admit that my ability to comprehend is limited.

arlis