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To: betty boop

OF COURSE, I THOROUGHLY AGREE

as usual.


606 posted on 08/30/2010 11:56:27 AM PDT by Quix (C THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl
You are my very dear brother in Christ, Quix; now and always!

May God ever bless you and your dear ones. May His Holy Spirit continue to guide your testimony for the benefit of "the Gentiles."

648 posted on 08/30/2010 4:26:25 PM PDT by betty boop (Those who do not punish bad men are really wishing that good men be injured. — Pythagoras)
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To: Quix
And here is a good step by step learning process to become a pent-e-costal pastor like Benny Hinn (the guy who says God is not 3 but 9) or Kenneth Copeland (the guy who says Adam was "God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself, and in the Garden of Eden He did just that. He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even. . . . Adam is as much like God as you could get, just the same as Jesus. . . . Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh." and has told believers that "You don't have a God in you. You are one.")

How to Fake a (Pentecostal) Healing
Pentecostals often remain in Pentecostalism despite many misgivings for one simple reason:  the healings.  They may admit that many of the practices and teachings are unbiblical.  They may confess that there is rampant abuse and manipulation.  But they shake off the doubts because they have seen so many supernatural events--people stand up out of wheelchairs, back pain healed, etc.  And so they wonder, "If this is really so bad, why are so many people being healed?  Isn't it all worth it if sick people are being restored to health?"
 
However, Pentecostal church services are all about showmanship and appearance.  It is surprisingly easy to fake healings, even to hold entire healing services in which people appear to be 'healed' all over the church and yet no one is really cured.  How is this accomplished?  The trick is usually, as Miracle Max said in the quote above, to focus on problems which can be resolved some way other than strictly supernaturally, to learn to 'heal' those who are only partly ill or can be made to seem well when they are not.
 
Let's examine some of the most common 'healing' tricks in the Pentecostal experience:
 
(a)  Bigfoot Sightings.  Perhaps the largest category of fake healings is what I call "Bigfoot Sightings", because, like the mythical Bigfoot, all that is known about these healings is that somebody else swears that they saw them and that they are real.
 
Most often, it is the pastor or a visiting evangelist who relates stories of healings that occurred somewhere else.  When these 'healings' are described in great detail to excited crowds, people tend to forget that they never actually witnessed the event and have no reason to believe that it actually occurred.  In the retelling of the story, people often relate the healing as though they witnessed it themselves.  It is only upon careful questioning that the truth emerges:  nobody actually saw this one; it was just a story told to the group by some convincing-sounding guy with a microphone.
 
EXAMPLE:  Evangelist/ missionary David Hogan often uses this technique.  Every time he speaks to groups, he claims to have raised 400+ people from the dead and performed many amazing miracles.  Although he relates many incredible stories, he never actually performs miracles at his meetings . . . he just talks about all the miracles that he supposedly performed somewhere else. 
 
Hogan's fans often describe him as a great man of God who heals the sick and raises the dead.  When directly asked, however, they admit that they have never actually seen Hogan do any miracles.  The only reason they have to believe that Hogan has ever performed any miracles is that Hogan himself claims that he has.
 
(b)  "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"  Occasionally, 'healings' are fakes, plain and simple.  Many evangelists believe that seeing people apparently get healed raises the level of faith of the parishioners and so opens the door for real healings.  They use this as an excuse to orchestrate healing shows that are planned in advance simply to shock and amaze the crowd.
 
EXAMPLE:  It is difficult to say how often this technique is used, because evangelists who employ it are usually quite careful to cover their tracks.  However, occasionally, scandals open up that allow a glimpse inside such misdealings.  One of the best known examples of the intentional and calculated use of fake healings involved cult leader Jim Jones.  Jones began his ill-fated career as a Pentecostal revivalist and healer.  One of his favorite techniques involved healing people of 'cancer' by apparently removing chunks of foul-smelling material from their bodies that he claimed were the cancerous tissues.  People's Temple insiders later confessed that the 'cancers' were actually rotten chicken livers, produced at the appropriate time during the church service with a little slight-of-hand.
 
(c)  MOSTLY disabled or ALL disabled?  One of the most obvious and most popular techniques used by faith healers is based upon a popular misunderstanding of disabilities.  When someone is in a wheelchair, people tend to assume that the person cannot walk AT ALL.  This is rarely the case.  Most people in wheelchairs can stand and even walk a little, just not far and not well.  Likewise, when a person is said to be blind or deaf, people tend to assume that the person cannot see or hear AT ALL.  Again, this is rarely the case.  Most blind people can see a little, just not very well, and most people who are 'deaf' are really only partially deaf.
 
This explains why many 'miracles' that occur in faith-healing services appear to be only partial healings.  A healer may tell someone in a wheelchair to stand and walk.  The person shakily stands and limps painfully across the stage.  The crowd cheers, because they think that this is amazing progress and that the person is on his or her way to a full recovery.  But, in fact, it may be no improvement at all.  Likewise, many healers will test a healing of a blind person by holding up a handkerchief and asking the person to grab it.  When the blind person is able to take hold of the handkerchief, the crowd is amazed, not realizing that there is nothing remarkable about a partly blind person being able to see a large white object held only inches from his or her face.
 
EXAMPLE:  This is one of the most common healing techniques and is used by many, many faith healers.  One of the best known examples is Peter Popoff, who used a few trusted collegues to scout for healing candidates among the crowds that came to his healing services.  Popoff's scouts always asked people in wheelchairs if they could walk a little or not at all.  Any that could walk a little were called up to the front for 'healing' during the subsequent service.  The technique was exposed by skeptic James Randi who placed actors in the audience to claim that they had disabilities.  Randi's actors were interviewed by Popoff's scouts, and the information transmitted to Popoff via a radio transmitter.  Randi intercepted and recorded the transmissions, which fed Popoff information on various audience members, including which of them would make good 'healing' candidates. 
there are more examples in the link --> read 'em and you too can form a sub-division of the Quixotic grouping!
681 posted on 08/31/2010 12:47:35 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
And sticking on the Pentec-ostl "paster" Kenneth Copeland, here are some more gems from his preachings:

Kenneth Copeland has taught the following

 

Other Teachings

"Adam was made in the image of God. He was as much female as he was male. He was exactly like God. Then God separated him and removed the female part. Woman means 'man with the womb.' Eve had as much authority as Adam did as long as they stayed together."
Sensitivity of Heart KCP Publications, 1984, 23

"He [Jesus] is suffering all that there is to suffer. There is no suffering left apart from Him. His emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing [hell]. And the Devil thinks he's got Him destroyed."
Believer's Voice of Victory" program [21 April 1991]. This message was originally delivered at the Full Gospel Motorcycle Rally Association 1990 Rally at Eagle Mountain Lake, Texas

"That Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before."
The Price of it All," Believer's Voice of Victory 19, 9 [September 1991]:4

"He [Jesus] was literally being reborn before the devil's very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles. . . .Jesus was born again--the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him--and He whipped the devil in his own backyard. He took everything he had away from him. He took his keys and his authority away from him." (Ibid., 4-6.)

"As a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent because it is His Word."


Why exactly do you believe these?

682 posted on 08/31/2010 12:51:31 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
And, to the founder of your group, ForeSquare Ahoy! namely Aimee Semple McPherson:

She claimed to be a healer. Who did she heal?

From the beginning of her ministry in 1915 until her death in 1944 there is not one verifiable, documented instance that she was able to heal any person. She never restored a missing arm or leg. She never healed a missing eye or cured the ravages of leprosy. She was unable to heal the congenitally deformed or mentally disabled. The same as with the current crop of miracle healers roaming the world, she could only heal the invisible and unverifiable. It's certainly safer and more convenient that way. The room and museum of discarded wheelchairs and crutches proved nothing as there was never any documentation regarding the reality of the diseases or disabilities of the persons that it was claimed used them, nor was there any documentation or follow-up done on their condition in relation to those claimed diseases and disabilities subsequent to the claims of healing.
683 posted on 08/31/2010 12:56:25 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
One quite incorrect belief in the pantecostal movement as exhibited by the ForeSquare cult is

BELIEF THAT THE GIFT OF TONGUES IS A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION LANGUAGE WITH GOD AND THAT IT IS A SIGN OF SPIRITUALITY OR CONFIRMATION OF THE PERSON BEING A CHRISTIAN. The gift of tongues was the gift to speak a known language for use in transmitting the gospel message to persons who spoke that particular language. In all cases when it was used, it was required that a translator be present and that only one person could use the gift at one time. Tongues were never used in the New Testament as a confirmation to believers, but as a confirmation to unbelievers of the reality of what they were being told. The apostle Paul considered the gift of tongues to be the least of the gifts, but charismatic believers fervently seek after it and place it at the top as the most favored and desirable. By turning the value of the gift upside down, they show that the gift is sought, not because of its spiritual value, but because of its display and exhibitionist qualities, and the subsequent claims to spirituality and prestige that are made when a person demonstrates what is said to be the gift.
684 posted on 08/31/2010 12:58:04 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
And from the annals of the other pentecostal hero, Benny Hinn!


Hinn asks for money, sometimes suggesting donations of no less than $100. Credit card forms are passed around with buckets to collect the cash.

It's part of the "prosperity gospel," the message of giving to the Lord as an investment, of financial miracles leading to physical ones. It has been a time-tested fund-raising tool for evangelists such as Oral Roberts, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and Jerry Falwell, and is a staple of the crop of Word Faith preachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Frederick Price and Joyce Meyer.

Followers say God anointed Hinn, who says he zaps people with power he absorbed from the graves of dead faith healers.

He takes off his jacket and rubs it over his body and swings it over his head. Sometimes people pass up handkerchiefs, and he lies on top of the pile, rubbing his power onto them.
687 posted on 08/31/2010 1:23:02 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
From here

Dr. Patrick Dixon in his book "Signs of Revival" lists six characteristics of an Altered State of Consciousness:

1. Alterations in thinking
2. Altered sense of time
3. Loss of control
4. Changes in emotional expression
5. Body image changes
6. Perceptual changes or hallucinations

The "laughing revival" is an altered state of consciousness.

A similar experience has taken place in Seattle, Washington called the "Seattle Revival Center." In 1994, three pastors, Darrel Stott of Lake Boren Christian Center, Steve Richard of Freedom Life Foursquare, and Wayne Anderson of International Church traveled to Toronto and claimed they "got drunk in the Holy Spirit."

Pastor Stott tells of his legs growing weak, falling on the floor, his legs flying in the air, laughing uncontrollably, feeling like a drunk, staggering, swinging around posts, shaking, furniture flying in the room, floor rolling, twitching, yelling, rolling down the halls, etc.. ("O Timothy" - #8, 1997 - page 2-4)

I believe these apparitions are demonic. At the Lausanne II Evangelical Conference in Manila in 1989, John Wimber testified of these supposed signs and wonders. "A member of the press panel from India refuted the claim that these miracles and signs must be from God. He said that the same charismatic-styled tongues, healings, miracles, signs and wonders are also found among the heathen religions of his native India." ("Foundation" magazine - March-April, 1997 - page 13)


689 posted on 08/31/2010 2:03:31 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
From here

I am not quoting this word for word but Joseph R. Chambers, (calls himself a Classic Pentecostal of over 40 years) of Paw Creek Ministries in his video "The False Anointing" references Revelation 13:11 and says the Pensacola Outpouring is a false anointing. It gives emphasis to the Anti-Christ. "The False prophet doeth great wonders," meaning he deceives by miracles. This is in preparation to cause people to worship the Anti-Christ. This False Prophet is already working, getting people ready for the Anti-Christ. It gets them to worship him. It is a counterfeit to the real thing. They are worshipping a Jesus that is not of the Bible. This anointing will prepare people to take the mark of the beast.


690 posted on 08/31/2010 2:04:08 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
From here

Music is a major factor in these supposed revivals. "One of the main songs at Pensacola is, 'The River is Here.'...Even a clear Biblical title for our Heavenly Father or His Son is totally missing from the lyrics. It is a 'New Age" type song that can be sung to a generic God. The mood of this song is hypnotic and literally sweeps the unsuspecting into a receptive mindset. People are readied to receive their 'apparition' by this kind of 'Beatles' music and sound." ("Pensacola Impartations-Apparitions" by Joseph R. Chambers).

James Ryles, the pastor of Bill McCartney, founder of Promise Keepers received a vision of the Beatles group, in which they represented the music God was going to use to bring and end-time revival. "In the summer of 1989, I had a dream...And I remember the dream thinking to myself, wow - this is like the Beatles music was new. The Lord spoke to me and said, 'What you saw in the Beatles - the gifting and that sound that they had - was from me. It did not belong to them. It belongeth to me. It was my purpose to bring forth through music a world-wide revival that would usher in the move of my spirit in bringing men and women to Christ." (Joseph R Chambers quoting "Harvest Conference, Denver, Colorado, James Ryle, November 1990)

Lendal Cooley, from the Vineyard Ministries is their music director at Brownsville. The music is a mix of rock and mood music. Don Moheim in the "Pentecostal Evangel" said "there is something spooky about the music, it has power to impart." (quote from video "Pensacola Impartations-Apparitions" by Joseph R. Chambers)

Joseph R. Chambers says of witnessing the music "It was full of hype and emotions, with a great majority of the audience jumping, dancing, etc. I don't mean spiritual worship, but the exact same as a rock concert. These revival services, whether at Pensacola, Toronto, Canada, or a Rodney Howard-Brown laughing service, are exact copies of a rock concert with the same emotions, the same hysteria, the same dance, and the same trivializing of truth, righteousness, and the glory of God." ("The False Anointing" by Joseph R. Chambers).

A group known as the Kansas City Prophets have done much to lend credence to these supposed revivals. There are several men all associated with a single church, formerly Kansas City Fellowship and now called Metro Vineyard Fellowship. Pastor Mike Bickle, is a leader in encouraging his flock to practice modern prophecy. Men from this group are often featured speakers at John Wimber's international conference ministry. Their teachings have been spread by a book entitled "Some Said it Thundered" by David Pytches. While they claim to receive prophecy from God they are about one to three in accuracy. In that book it states "Anyone who has experience in helping to nurture 'baby prophets' realizes that they have difficulty in distinguishing the words that the Spirit speaks from those that come from their own hearts or even from evil sources. At first they make many mistakes." (page 14) Some believe the movement is connected to the Latter Reign Movement of the forties and fifties. One of their staff members, Paul Cain, was associated with that movement.


691 posted on 08/31/2010 2:05:17 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
From here

Another side issue that is not connected with these particular revivals is the teachings of Kenneth Hagin. He is practicing a manifestation which is called the "Serpent Spirit." On October 12-24, 1997, he conducted a Holy Ghost meeting in Chesterfield, Mo. "On the third night he began to manifest this spirit with his tongue sticking out and wiggling like a serpent's tongue. He also began to hiss. On Thursday night, as he began to hiss, many of the people began to slither down out of their seats feet first. Some of the people would hiss back at him." ("Kenneth Hagin and the 'Spirit of the Serpent' - by Joseph R. Chambers)


692 posted on 08/31/2010 2:05:58 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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