Here's the problem (as I see it) in a nutshell. Within Catholicism, the definition of "outermost circle of Christianity" is the two-pronged "apostolic succession/papal submission" and "valid Eucharist" (transubstantiation). All other doctrinal issues, while not ignored, are secondary considerations. In this mindset, if you're a "real" Christian you must be Catholic. And if you're not Catholic, you're at best a member of an "ecclesial community" (Protestants), of a "defective church" (Orthodox), or not a Christian at all. Thus, the mindset of Catholicism towards the corporate exercise of Christianity is exclusivist by design. You're either (already) Catholic, or you're well outside the safety zone.
Now using that mindset, when Catholics look upon Protestant denominations, they believe that all denominations must similarly be fully exclusivist towards all other denominations. They think that Protestants exclude all denominations/members not their own from the full body of Christ, because that's how it Catholics themselves approach others. While some "Protestant" congregations and denominations (using those terms loosely) may act that way towards outsiders, the majority do not (and the creedal ones IMO less so).
I find it amusing that it was Calvinists and Presbyterians who came up with the "Five Fundamentals" (where the perjorative "fundamentalist" comes from) as an ecumenical tool to find common ground with Christians of all persuasions (including Catholics and Orthodox). I myself can find fruitful, common ground with any and all Trinitarian Christians (Trinitarianism being my personal "outermost circle" for defining Christianity. Sure, we might argue doctrine, we might argue about what are "doctrines of demons" or what is the "gospel of Satan", but those are inter-family squabbles as far as many of us are concerned. Catholicism and Orthodoxy cannot reach across the aisle and say the same, IMO.
Related threads:
The word is evangelical, not fundamentalist
The many forms of fundamentalism
Put that cup of coffee down [re the proper use of the religious term "fundamentalist"]
Now using that mindset, when Catholics look upon Protestant denominations, they believe that all denominations must similarly be fully exclusivist towards all other denominations. They think that Protestants exclude all denominations/members not their own from the full body of Christ, because that's how it Catholics themselves approach others. While some "Protestant" congregations and denominations (using those terms loosely) may act that way towards outsiders, the majority do not (and the creedal ones IMO less so).
I find it amusing that it was Calvinists and Presbyterians who came up with the "Five Fundamentals" (where the perjorative "fundamentalist" comes from) as an ecumenical tool to find common ground with Christians of all persuasions (including Catholics and Orthodox). I myself can find fruitful, common ground with any and all Trinitarian Christians (Trinitarianism being my personal "outermost circle" for defining Christianity. Sure, we might argue doctrine, we might argue about what are "doctrines of demons" or what is the "gospel of Satan", but those are inter-family squabbles as far as many of us are concerned. Catholicism and Orthodoxy cannot reach across the aisle and say the same, IMO.
Great post and wonderful links, Alex. Thanks.
That's fairly accurate, but I would say apostolic succession-valid Eucharist is one and the same category, as one cannot be without the other; and universal papal jurisdiction is the other.
Again, this is pretty close but not quite close enough. The Catholics are not denying that mainline Protestants or the Eastern Orthodox are "real" Christians. If you are baptized in the name of Trinity with triple pouring of the water, or triple submersion, then you are a "real" or Trinitarian Christian. Your Church may be "defective" or a "Christian assembly" rather than a church, but that's an ecclesial and theological issue.
Thus, the mindset of Catholicism towards the corporate exercise of Christianity is exclusivist by design. You're either (already) Catholic, or you're well outside the safety zone.
As far as the Church is concerned yes. You can't be Catholic "a little bit."
I myself can find fruitful, common ground with any and all Trinitarian Christians (Trinitarianism being my personal "outermost circle" for defining Christianity
The Founding Fathers, many of whom were Uniatrists or Deists, but also Catholics and Anglicans as well as mostly Protestants, found a way to include everyone in a fruitful, common groundwork although you had someone like Thomas Jefferson accuse Paul of being the corruptor of the teachings of Jesus or deny the divinity of Jesus and still be counted among "Christians."
Sure, we might argue doctrine, we might argue about what are "doctrines of demons" or what is the "gospel of Satan", but those are inter-family squabbles as far as many of us are concerned. Catholicism and Orthodoxy cannot reach across the aisle and say the same, IMO.
Correct, because the Church never taught such things and will say that such "doctrines" are not apart of genuine ancient Christianity or tradition. The Orthodox, especially, are least interested in reaching across the aisle and corrupting what they see as the Church which followed a straight and narrow path even through unspeakable adversities.
I think you’ve got it, alex.
enlightening post.
And your tag is hilarious.
Amen!
I have worshiped in Lutheran, Baptist and other churches and have been warmly welcomed as a brother.
A couple of years ago I remember traveling to visit family and attended Christmas Eve service at a Reformed Baptist church. They had communion after the main service and wanted to interview (my words) any guests before they broke bread.
The deacon who interviewed me asked why I should be allowed to partake. I told him I am a sinner who has been saved by faith in Christ alone and I bring nothing of my own. He asked if I was a member of a church that preached the Gospel, and I affirmed that I was. He asked if I could vouch for my family, I did. He warmly welcomed us to the table.
Quite different from what you get in a Roman outpost.