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To: Legatus
The preaching of Christ crucified and risen is the reef upon which the link between faith and philosophy can break up, but it is also the reef beyond which the two can set forth upon the boundless ocean of truth. Here we see not only the border between reason and faith, but also the space where the two may meet.

Human philosophy has no place in the Truth of God...This is crazy talk...

hat's an excerpt of "Fides et Ratio" (Faith and Reason), usually the writing of JPII is too cerebral for me but in this encyclical there's a lot that even I can understand without needing a theologian to explain it to me.

If you'd dump the philosophical theologians and concentrate on what God says, you wouldn't need to hunt for someone to explain the scriptures to you...

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by
(our study of fallen human philosophy??? NO, but by) his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

They are not philosophically discerned but spiritually discerned...You might want to ask yourself if that is why you need a reasoning philosopher to explain his version of the scriptures to you...

564 posted on 08/30/2010 9:32:18 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
AMEN, Iscool.

The only thing human philosophy serves his man. And doctrines of men. It serves to shore up faulty teachings and deceitful workings of men who desire above all, to 'help' God in His plan for mankind. He does not need nor does He desire man's help. And yet, on and on man toils, bringing Him the fruit of their hands. And wait for Him to smile thankfully on them.

566 posted on 08/30/2010 9:46:53 AM PDT by smvoice (smvoice- formally known as small voice in the wilderness. Easier on the typing!)
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To: Iscool

GREAT POINTS.

THX. THX.


570 posted on 08/30/2010 9:55:22 AM PDT by Quix (C THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Iscool
Human philosophy has no place in the Truth of God...This is crazy talk...

Know-nothing ignorance has no place outside of the nursery. A complete lack of reading comprehension is pretty useless too: In order to express the gratuitous nature of the love revealed in the Cross of Christ, the Apostle is not afraid to use the most radical language of the philosophers in their thinking about God. Reason cannot eliminate the mystery of love which the Cross represents, while the Cross can give to reason the ultimate answer which it seeks. It is not the wisdom of words, but the Word of Wisdom which Saint Paul offers as the criterion of both truth and salvation.

For goodness sake, read what's actually there.

572 posted on 08/30/2010 9:58:29 AM PDT by Legatus
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To: Iscool; Legatus; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Quix
Isn't the classical distinction that between reason and revelation? It takes revelation (a gift, a grace -- as is the inclination to believe the revelation) to know God, but reason can provide an amazing amount of truth ABOUT God.

Iscool saith:
Human philosophy has no place in the Truth of God. ...

Of course, the word "human" might need some exploring. For some it seems to mean little more than "bad", and if that's the meaning, the proposition is unarguable.

But otherwise, then I would offer that it follows that our discussion of the Eucharist "has no place in the Truth of God," since it is an exercise in philosophy to discuss what a thing is, what "real" means, even, to some extent, what "spiritual" means.

If we are going to talk about "bread" "symbol" "truth" and the different possible meanings of "this is my body," I don't see how we can avoid philosophy.

Again, I'm not intending to scare up some straw dogs. I'm calling it like I see it.

And when I'm finished with my St Bernard reading I will reread Fides et Ratio.

586 posted on 08/30/2010 10:42:05 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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