Intended Catholic Dictatorship

Independent Individualist ^ | 8/27/10 | Reginald Firehammer

[Hank Kerchief]

Intended Catholic Dictatorship

The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.

The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).

The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.

The Intentions Made Plain

The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:

"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization

"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.

"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.

"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.

"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.

Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.

This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!

In Their Own Words

The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.

[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]

Two Comments

First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.

This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.

Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.

—Reginald Firehammer (06/28/10)

[stfassisi]

We have the words of Jesus only because the Church preserved them and passed them along with the rest of tradition (including the NT).

That is correct!Without the Church telling us what is in the NT the following is an example of what the naysayers have as proof of the existence of scriptures..

Mere fragments like this....

;

little do some people realize when they are reading the Bible-it is a TRADITION they hope is from the ORIGINAL based upon what the Catholic Church says is based on the original. It's not because they ever seen the original since all we have is fragments

[OLD REGGIE]

Shuck and Jive.

The protestant poet called Elizabeth, “O Goddesse.”

It seems to me that the shocked outrage at excesses aimed at a greater queen than barren Elizabeth is emptied of all its power.

It’s just another instance of, “It’s wrong when catholics do it, but okay when non-Catholics do it.”

I’m not interested in that game any more. We won and your side will never acknowledge it in a thousand years. I’ll stick to scholastic musings and explanations. I’m really not much interested in idle fencing.

I'm really surprised at the shallowness of your "we won" rant.

An obscure poet is all you can find to compare with the obsessive "veneration" of Mary by your entire Church.

It is probably better you stick with your scholastic musings and away from substantial discussion.

[OLD REGGIE]

Don't you have that backwards? We have the words of Jesus only because the Church preserved them and passed them along with the rest of tradition (including the NT). The Church and the practice of the Eucharist predate the NT.

The New Testament existed long before the written versions appeared. And that Church predates the Roman Catholic Church.

[maryz]

An obscure poet

"Obscure"???? Edmund Spenser is acknowledged to be one of the four greats of English literature, along with Chaucer, Shakespeare and Milton (though less popularly known). That particular passage is from the Dedication of The Faerie Queene, his greatest work. There's lots more of the same out there, plenty by obscure poets and plenty by not so obscure. Feel free to seek them out!

[OLD REGGIE]

You think God comes in parts?

You presented three if's. If your third "if" implies Jesus is physically present, flesh and blood, in the host your "if's" are untrue.

[rwilson99]

By your logic the Westboro idiots are good Baptists.

[Mad Dawg]

I'm really surprised at the shallowness of your "we won" rant.

Was I long enough to qualify as a rant?

As for "shallow" it might be too early for your side to declare victory.

An obscure poet is all you can find to compare with the obsessive "veneration" of Mary by your entire Church.

He can scarcely be obscure enough to suit me, if that's his best "worke."

"Obsession"? My ENTIRE Church?

It seems to me the issue up 'til now was not how many were saying a thing, but what was the nature of the thing being said? Obscure pamphlets are not excused by their obscurity. But now, suddenly it's an election, one where the side with the greatest number of votes loses, a sort of force mineure?

It is probably better you stick with your scholastic musings and away from substantial discussion.

Was the pun intended or inadvertent? In either case, you went to the number of people saying a thing, a great mass of people, while I went to the quiddity of the thing being said. So I think my conversation is both substantial and scholastic. The charge has never been that many of us said a thing, but that the thing being said was wrong. Now it seems it is wrong when we say it, but less so when one of the others says it.

[maryz]

The New Testament existed long before the written versions appeared.

I have no idea what you mean by this. Granted, the words of consecration were spoken by Christ well before they were written, and it's those words that manifested, well, let's say the "New Covenant", since it's less confusing to use the distinct terms for distinct realities.

And that Church predates the Roman Catholic Church.

I'm well aware you disagree, but "that Church" is in fact what you refer to as "the Roman Catholic Church."

[Mad Dawg]

My guessing at which if the 'if's it might be was secondary to you're not saying which one or ones it was with which you disagreed with.

If your third "if" implies Jesus is physically present, flesh and blood, in the host your "if's" are untrue.

Thank goodness it implies no such thing. I have written, I guess, more than a thousand words herento say it is not a physical presence. Our teaching is that Jesus is substantially present, not physically. It's a pretty coherent teaching.

So was it the 'present' if you stopped at, or at another, or what?

[Mad Dawg]

Oops! I just dissed Spenser. Darn.

I guess I’ll have to read the Faerie Queen as penance.

[OLD REGGIE]

An obscure poet

"Obscure"???? Edmund Spenser is acknowledged to be one of the four greats of English literature, along with Chaucer, Shakespeare and Milton (though less popularly known). That particular passage is from the Dedication of The Faerie Queene, his greatest work. There's lots more of the same out there, plenty by obscure poets and plenty by not so obscure. Feel free to seek them out!

And the Archbishop Of Canterbury is on record as praising his work and saying it was one of the greatest influences on his life?

Get real.

[Running On Empty]

Dear metmom,

If Catholics care, that is the best thing for them.

Count me among them.

[maryz]

IIRC, you really liked that passage from the Mutabilitie Cantos (last unfinished book of FQ) when I quoted it on another thread . . . oh, last year some time! ;-)

[maryz]

And the Archbishop Of Canterbury is on record as praising his work and saying it was one of the greatest influences on his life?

Just a guess, but I'm thinking the A of C at the time wouldn't have said much against Spenser if Elizabeth liked him! And Elizabeth lapped that stuff up!

[metmom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faerie_Queene

The Faerie Queene

The Faerie Queene is an incomplete English epic poem by Edmund Spenser. The first half was published in 1590, and a second installment was published in 1596. The Faerie Queene is notable for its form: it was the first work written in Spenserian stanza and is one of the longest poems in the English language.[1] It is an allegorical work, written in praise of Queen Elizabeth I. Largely symbolic, the poem follows several knights in an examination of several virtues.

*******************************************************************************

How do you know hte religious affiliation of the author? The Protestant Reformation had just begun in GERMANY only a few decades before.

Besides, it’s an ALLEGORY. Nobody is worshiping Queen Elizabeth II.

If you have to go to those kinds of lengths to dig something up to use against Protestants, your case is far weaker than you could imagine.

I certainly hope you’re not a lawyer.

[maryz]

The body of the poem is an allegory, and Elizabeth doesn't appear in it in any guise. The section I quoted is from the dedication (you know, as modern books have rather more modest dedications along the lines of "To my dear friend John"). I no longer have my books from grad school, and Spenser was the easiest to find on the Internet. But there's plenty more of the same type out there.

[Mad Dawg]

Two part answer:

I find that if I were to think of this as somehow a transformation of those elements to Christ Himself somehow entering us then my focus would naturally go to the sense if or not that happened....

I'm not entirely sure I understand. First "transformation" and "sense". We keep insisting there is not a perceptible change, not "sensible", that is, not able to be sensed by the senses. The change is apprehended sola fide. It is believed. So yes, if one's faith was troubled, I suppose one's focus might shift.

... so therefore that solemn moment becomes self focused rather than on what those elements actually represent for us by what Christ did in taking away our very own sins. Of course if the problem is a weak faith, then a loss of focus on God and a distraction with focus on oneself is almost to be expected, isn't it? Isn't it by grace and faith that our focus is drawn to God?

I can only report for myself that I am not 'troubled' with wondering if Jesus is there. You could almost say I'm too busy talking and listening to Him to worry about stuff like that. Does that make sense?

I would say that the Mass, while not a 'work' in the sense that I get brownie points, is still 'work' in another way. It is, you might say, an exercise of the presence of God. We hear the Word proclaimed and a sermon. We pray for the Church and the world, which is our godly duty. The Prayer of Consecration is a shorter or longer 'recollection' of all the God has done for us in Christ, and a response of praise, prayer, and petition. Then there is the Lord's prayer, "the Peace" in which we greet those around us, and communion itself. So it's a celebration of the nearness of God: In Bible, in prayer, in one another, in sacrament. And, especially in a larger church, even if there are hymns and music, there is time to be alone and 'interior' with God.

I guess I kinda like it.

---

Oh! After writing all of the above claptrap, I wonder if I misunderstood you. I guess I can only respond that we have a very rich sense of remembrance. "I remember so well it's almost as if He were with me again -- no, he IS with me!"

I've said enough. Fire away.

[maryz]

there is time to be alone and 'interior' with God.

Yes, of course, but also to be aware of being in union with the Church across the world and through time, in meeting the Eternal. Sort of a heightened consciousness. At least for me.

I know I'm not saying it very well. But I'm tired and about to turn in now.

Good night, all!

[Quix]

I think you’re right.

I think that was it.

Attacks on Dr E and I are SOP and probably as required as their STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY. Some of them act like they are as required as the Rosary.

Sheesh.

IT’S THE ATTACKS ON GREAT HEROS LIKE DR JESSE MARCEL JR that push my buttons. GRRRRR I see there’s still an ignorant continuing bunch of idiocy and denial ranting on about that issue. Guess I’m going to have to document the record since they can’t remember any responsibility for any of their skull duggary longer than a nanosecond.

[Quix]

No. My posts are not made to deliberately cause pain—unless you call intense confrontations with truth painful.