Posted on 08/15/2010 2:44:17 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
One of the noteworthy examples of the Latter-day Saint commitment to treasure up true principles and cultivate affirmative gratitude is the admiration that Church leaders have expressed over the years for the spiritual contributions of Muhammad.
As early as 1855, at a time when Christian literature generally ridiculed Muhammad as the Antichrist and the archenemy of Western civilization, Elders George A. Smith (1817–75) and Parley P. Pratt (1807–57) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles delivered lengthy sermons demonstrating an accurate and balanced understanding of Islamic history and speaking highly of Muhammad’s leadership. Elder Smith observed that Muhammad was “descended from Abraham and was no doubt raised up by God on purpose” to preach against idolatry. He sympathized with the plight of Muslims, who, like Latter-day Saints, found it difficult “to get an honest history” written about them. Speaking next, Elder Pratt went on to express his admiration for Muhammad’s teachings, asserting that “upon the whole, … [Muslims] have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations.” 9
Latter-day Saint appreciation of Muhammad’s role in history can also be found in the 1978 First Presidency statement regarding God’s love for all mankind. This declaration specifically mentions Muhammad as one of “the great religious leaders of the world” who received “a portion of God’s light” and affirms that “moral truths were given to [these leaders] by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” 10
In recent years, respect for the spiritual legacy of Muhammad and for the religious values of the Islamic community has led to increasing contact and cooperation between Latter-day Saints and Muslims around the world. This is due in part to the presence of Latter-day Saint congregations in areas such as the Levant, North Africa, the Persian Gulf, and Southeast Asia. The Church has sought to respect Islamic laws and traditions that prohibit conversion of Muslims to other faiths by adopting a policy of nonproselyting in Islamic countries of the Middle East. Yet examples of dialogue and cooperation abound, including visits of Muslim dignitaries at Church headquarters in Salt Lake City; Muslim use of Church canning facilities to produce halal (ritually clean) food products; Church humanitarian aid and disaster relief sent to predominantly Muslim areas including Jordan, Kosovo, and Turkey; academic agreements between Brigham Young University and various educational and governmental institutions in the Islamic world; the existence of the Muslim Student Association at BYU; and expanding collaboration between the Church and Islamic organizations to safeguard traditional family values worldwide. 11 The recent initiation of the Islamic Translation Series, cosponsored by BYU and the Church, has resulted in several significant exchanges between Muslim officials and Latter-day Saint Church leaders. A Muslim ambassador to the United Nations predicted that this translation series “will play a positive role in the West’s quest for a better understanding of Islam.” 12
A cabinet minister in Egypt, aware of the common ground shared by Muslims and Latter-day Saints, once remarked to Elder Howard W. Hunter of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles that “if a bridge is ever built between Christianity and Islam it must be built by the Mormon Church.” 13 The examples of Latter-day Saint–Muslim interaction mentioned above, together with the Church’s establishment in 1989 of two major centers for educational and cultural exchange in the Middle East (Jerusalem and Amman), reflect the traditional attitude of respect for Islam that Church leaders have exhibited from earliest times. These activities represent tangible evidence of Latter-day Saint commitment to promote greater understanding of the Muslim world and witness an emerging role for the Church in helping to bridge the gap that has existed historically between Muslims and Christians.
Once you dig past the different appearances, procedures and terminologies you see that most everything is the same, just worded, phrased of done a little differently.
Wait...
Hold the phone...
1010 is not LDS?
So let me see if I get this...
Here we have a guy who tells in a recent posting that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God...
That LDS doctrine is in compliance with the Bible...
That their idea of Theosis is legitimate...
BUT IS NOT LDS?
Now pray tell how does THAT work?
If you believe in your own words 1010, if you support your own arguments, if you are honest and straightforward YOU HAVE TO BE A MEMEBR OF THE LDS!
Just on the fact that you say Smith was a true prophet alone you have no Choice but to be a Mormon. Smith said his was the ONLY true non apostate Church!
So are you not following a Prophet of God?
Is it that you WANT to be an Apostate? (a week point to argue from)
Are you a non believer just playing games? (a possibility we have seen it before)
Well it matters not, the one thing that it certainly means is that your arguments are not worth the electrons they are written in.
If you cannot have the courage of your convictions to buy your own blather, why should we?
26 years ago, with my first wife who was Greek Orthodox, I attended my first GOA Church service, what they call Divine Liturgy.
While much of the service was in Greek, they did the Nicene Creed in English.
While growing up a Methodist I was more familiar with the Apostles creed, we had often also used the Nicene as well.
It was odd, here I was in a very different much more ornate and almost ancient feeling Church Sanctuary, nothing the like I have ever seen in my experience, in a seeming almost alien form of a service, and yet here I was a member of a much newer tradition repeating words of the faith I had said for many years.
Whenever I see our foes, or those Christians with a need for a little more understanding, make hay about all the "differences" and "infighting" between the denominations, I remember that, as well as that when I joined the GOA one of the oldest Christian traditions in the world, dating back to the early first century, accepted the Baptism from one of the newest mainline Protestant Churches (1730s when Wesley started his work).
It tells me what is made of man and what is of God is those little "disagreements"...
Praise God!!!
Mr. 10 proclaimed him/herself to be a “fundamentalist Christian” on another thread a week or so ago to another freeper.
Either he is being less than candid about his LDS membership or spitting in the face of God...
Well, we'll just have to wait till school gets out and find out.
1. Priesthood
2. Anointing oil
3. Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins
Let’s start with these three. Refute them using actual Bible verses not opinion.
PS Let’s keep focused and not leave anyone out. The Clubhouse is big enough for everyone.
Here's Websters (1913 first, then the 1828 defintion):
Christian (Page: 253)
Chris"tian (?), n. [L. christianus, Gr. ; cf. AS. cristen. See Christ.]
1. One who believes, or professes or is assumed to believe, in Jesus Christ, and the truth as taught by Him; especially, one whose inward and outward life is conformed to the doctrines of Christ.
The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. Acts xi. 26.
2. One born in a Christian country or of Christian parents, and who has not definitely becomes an adherent of an opposing system.
3. (Eccl.) (a) One of a Christian denomination which rejects human creeds as bases of fellowship, and sectarian names. They are congregational in church government, and baptize by immersion. They are also called Disciples of Christ, and Campbellites. (b) One of a sect (called Christian Connection) of open-communion immersionists. The Bible is their only authoritative rule of faith and practice. &hand; In this sense, often pronounced, but not by the members of the sects, krīs"chan.
Christian (Page: 253)
Chris"tian (?), a.
1. Pertaining to Christ or his religion; as, Christian people.
3. Pertaining to the church; ecclesiastical; as, a Christian court. Blackstone.
4. Characteristic of Christian people; civilized; kind; kindly; gentle; beneficent.
The graceful tact; the Christian art. Tennyson.
Christian Commission. See under Commission. -- Christian court. Same as Ecclesiastical court. -- Christian era, the present era, commencing with the birth of Christ. It is supposed that owing to an error of a monk (Dionysius Exiguus, d. about 556) employed to calculate the era, its commencement was fixed three or four years too late, so that 1890 should be 1893 or 1894. -- Christian name, the name given in baptism, as distinct from the family name, or surname.
CHRISTIAN, n.
1. A believer in the religion of Christ.
2. A professor of his belief in the religion of Christ.
3. A real disciple of Christ; one who believes in the truth of the Christian religion, and studies to follow the example, and obey the precepts, of Christ; a believer in Christ who is characterized by real piety.
4. In a general sense, the word Christians includes all who are born in a Christian country or of Christian parents.
CHRISTIAN, a. [See the Noun.]
1. Pertaining to Christ, taught by him, or received from him; as the Christian religion; Christian doctrines.
2. Professing the religion of Christ; as a Christian friend.
3. Belonging to the religion of Christ; relating to Christ, or to his doctrines, precepts and example; as christian profession and practice.
4. Pertaining to the church; ecclesiastical; as courts Christian.
CHRISTIAN, v.t. To baptize.
As one can see instantly from these definitions both the noun and adjective Christian apply to the LDS.
NB: the 1828 version uses a verb tense where Christian means to baptize.
Finally an lds truth, lds are not Christians because they do not follow the Christ of the Bible (according to the leaders of lds).
Mormons would not fit this definition. They readily admit to believing in a different Christ.
If you make a scarecrow out in your garden and hang it on a cross with a sign that says "Christ," and you profess belief that repeating chants in a pretty building will save you - um, you are NOT a Christian and do not believe in Christ.
If you buy a watch that says Rolexs on the dial from a man in a trench coat out on 1st and Main, you've been had!
Watch out for false prophets bearing false doctrine of false christs.
You got an issue to resolve professor before you keep lecturing us!
So before you expend more electrons...
How can you be a Fundamentalist Christian or anything other that a member of the Latter Day Saints when you tells us that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of god and that their doctrine s supported by the bible?
If you truly believe what you say, given that god himself told Smith he will lead the ONLY true church, the you MUST be Mormon.
Otherwise you don't believe your own arguments and there is no reason on that basis alone for us to buy them either...
you (lds) do not believe in the Jesus of the Bible
The Jesus of the Bible is the Son of God (Heavenly Father);
was born of woman;
grew from grace to grace;
baptized;
fulfilled prophecy;
set up His Church along with specific rules, ordinances, and offices;
bled from every pore in Gethsemane;
was illegally arrested (per Jewish Law);
was illegally tried (per Jewish Law);
was condemned to death;
crucified;
resurrected with a real body;
ascended to His Father;
returned and ate with the Apostles who also saw, heard and touched him;
He ascended bodily into Heaven;
He will return again.
Now tell me again why this is Biblical thinking?
Because it is Biblical.
Formal Aaronic/levitical priesthood done away with by Christ - Hebrews 7. Only one high priest allowed at a time and could only be of the tribe of Levi. Only Jesus qualified for office of Melchizedek (Heb. 7:1-4, 23-28). All believers (male and female) are members a royal priesthood.
2. Anointing oil
You will need to shapen your pencil on this further in how mormon get it right sonny. 'Annointing oil' has a very broad range of specifications and used in the bible.
3. Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins
Phrase applies to John the Baptist and the OT economy (Mk 1:4, Lk 3:3) Jesus' baptism is with 'fire'. It is not necessary for salvation but is a response to that salvation “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” (1 Corinthians 1:17). It is the gospel that saves, not baptism. (By this gospel you are saved..." (1 Cor. 15:2). Also, Rom. 1:16 says, "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.")
Back to school junior. These 'definitions' are based upon the Christian understanding of Christ - not the mormon polytheistic views. Perhaps you are capable of distilling the issue further - the failure of the mormon christ to attain the status of the Christian Christ - define those more throughly oh christian fundamentalist. Websters will never help you out there.
The Jesus of the Bible is the Second Person of the Trinity, who obtained the title as the Son of God through His incarnation and birth, yet the fullness of the divinity remained in Him throughout.
grew from grace to grace;
Biblical scripture citation lacking as well as specific definition. set up His Church along with specific rules, ordinances, and offices;
Cite Jesus' words from the bible on these specific rules, ordinances and offices.
bled from every pore in Gethsemane;
That is an exaggeration, read the scripture passage again.
Because it is Biblical.
You lost it with your first statement. Read John 1:1 - 17. Jesus was not only the Son of God but was God.
Really, shapen your pencil kid, you are being lazy.
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