I sense a possible discussion similar to Erasmus and the Binding of the Will...
IIRC, that was one of the most theologically erudite threads ever on FR.
I need to do a lot of research and thinking on this one before I post anything of import.
I hope the followers of this subject don’t disappoint...
Opening salvo: Then what was the point of the Prodigal Son? Does not that story state that God's forbearance is infinite? (P.S.: I always saw things from the son who stayed home's perspective -- this is the time for theologians to discern God's Wrath from His Forgiveness).
Thanks for the post; link and discussion.
So far it looks like Pastor Bill and I agree. I’ll follow this one and see how it goes.
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I’m sorry pastor, but you do realize to whom Paul is speaking, don’t you? He’s speaking to his “dear friends in Rome”, in the Roman church, who he remembers fondly. And they are just as bad.
He goes on to say, “When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are talking about yourselves.”
There are so many emphases in Romans on God’s Grace, and the deceitfulness of our own hearts.
As Jesus did when He was in His ministry, Paul is talking about the self-righteousness of those who should know better, those who are “saved by Grace.”
Christ was a magnet for sinners and He rarely condemned them, but offered them love, redemption, forgiveness and salvation. He saved His condemnation for the biblically trained and those legally constrained.
Paul, in his letter to the Romans is so very emphatic about God’s Grace to us, that we did not deserve it. How possibly could he talk about wrath to anyone other than those who received that Grace?
Talk about God’s wrath to a sinner and you’ve lost him. Talk about God’s love and Grace and you may have shown him the way to Salvation.
When I was 9, 10 and 11 I got to go to a Christian camp. I remember it well, and for the most part, fondly. My counsellors became, in fact, a well known TV minister who died about 10 years ago, and the uncle and father of of fairly prominent TV teacher on air right now.
I’ll never forget that I couldn’t roast my hot dog in the bonfire because all I could think about was burning in hell. And at night I would wake up in that cabin and fear that Jesus had come and I was “left behind”.
That experience turned me away from the Lord for many years, and I vowed I would not expose my children to that kind of abuse. Thankfully, today, they are all active Christians and their kids are too.