Yet those very men whose Christianity you deny, themselves declare Christian values to be the foundation of the Revolutionary Act, and of the document they created. But, you seem to believe that you know better than they what was in their minds. A man, who apparently believed similarly as you, turned on the American people, betrayed their trust by denouncing everything they held sacred, in the mistaken thought that he could sway them to any way of thinking he wished, discovered he could not, and died with their scorn and in disgrace. Would that no better fate should await you, but I defer to the Lord’s will on that issue.
Despite the Founding Fathers’ declarations, no curiosity is aroused in your thoughts, no wonderment disturbs your mind, over the blatant discrepancy between what you assert and what the Founders themselves declare. One must think that you should pause to consider so blatant a contradiction in your construct, but seemly not.
Even John Adams, the very epitome of what you trumpet to be an example of the Unitarian denial of Christianity, embarrasses you:
“. . . The general principles On which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young gentlemen could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. “And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united; and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all these young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature, and our terrestrial mundane system. I could therefore safely say, consistently with all my then and present information, that I believed they would never make discoveries in contradiction to these general principles . . . ” (letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh Editor, in 19 volumes).
So you plow straight ahead, head down, eyes averted, propounding an absurdity so preposterous that even the old Latins had no name for the fallacy.
“The Declaration is not specifically Christian, implicitly or explicitly.”
Yet the men who wrote it and voted on it (and the people who sent them to Independence Hall) declare the document to be explicitly Christian. Whom would you have me believe?
“That's the way the world is, whether you understand it or not. Might prevails. If you have the might, you write the rules.”
Did the Romans write the rules for the Christians? Who prevailed? . . . Roman might? . . . or Christian faith? It’s people like you (and Rand Paul) who encourage people to believe that resisting evil is futile. You remind me of the Amsterdam lady who announced, “all war is stupid.” I asked her if that included the Dutch war for independence from Spain. I asked her if we stupid Americans should not have sent our General Eisenhower and several million GIs over to liberate Western Europe in 1944. The lady had no answer, but I could tell from her eyes that no amount of instances would sway her from her belief. Just as I an sure none can sway yours.
“In the real world we "settle" things by compromising with our adversaries and even enemies.”
In the “real world” some political compromises are possible, though I can think of none presently that offer any hope for success. In the “real world” I asked you if abjectly false absolute statements such as Rand’s included absolutes like “might always makes right.” You had no answer.
kosta50, the color of the skin is irrelevant.
The issue is how Americans see themselves. As Condi Rice pointed out in a wonderful convention speech, Americans must see themselves as individuals.
The unalienable Creator-given rights apply to the individual. We each, individually, have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And by extension, the individual freedom of religion, speech, bearing arms and so forth.
Whether learned by their culture or a state religion (or non religion) or whether by having it drilled into their heads in our K-12 public education system, the individuals who surrender to a hive-mind are the problem - particularly if the hive sees itself as a victim class.
Just my "two cents" ...
Jefferson, the main author of the Declaration, re-wrote the New Testament, threw out what he didn't like, called Paul the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus, etc. Do you really think one can reject Paul, two thirds of the New Testament, the divinity of Jesus, the Trinitarian God, and still be a Christian? Ridiculous!
Jefferson tells me what was in his mind, and the 2 billion mainline Christians tell me what is Christianity. Thomas Paine tells me what was in his mind and he was no Christian. Just as Glenn Beck tells me he is a Mormon, which means he is no Christian because as a Mormon he believes God the Father used to be a man and has a body, that Jesus and Satan are brothers, that one can baptize the dead, etc.
How gracious of you. All this because I state a simple fact that there is nothing Christian, implicitly or explicitly stated, in the Declaration. If you can find one reference to the Bible, Christ or the Holy Trinity in it, please be so kind to point it out to me.
And what's this veiled threat and the presumptuous condemnation about? Are the Founding Fathers infallible? Is it against the law to interpret them individually? You make it sound as if having a different opinion of the Fathers is treason if not blasphemy? Get hold of your emotions and pipe down your presumptuous attitude.
You quote Adams but conveniently ignore Jefferson, or Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, and others, and amazingly fail to see that their private correspondence is one thing and what they wrote into the Declaration is another.
As for Adam's Christianity, yes, the Unitarists consider themselves Christians, and so do Mormons, and Arians, and Donatists, and Bogomils, and Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.
Christianity is a belief in Jesus being the divine Logos (John 1:1). Anything other than that is not Christianity but a Christian cult.
Adams writes to Jefferson " I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united...and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence" and I ask you where are those principles spelled out in the New Testament?
But they don't say what is specifically Christian about it! You can believe whomever you want, critically or uncritically, that is your prerogative. I am not asking you to believe me; I am stating my opinion and you yours. No one is after you, twisting your arm and washing your brain, persecuting you. If you feel someone is after you, perhaps a medical consult might be helpful for that condition.
Yes, as a matter of fact they did. It was the power of the imperial Roman decision that made Christianity a state religion and prohibited all other religions.
No, actually it's Jesus who says "do not resist the evil." (Mat 5:39).
Well, you have interesting dissociative associations, it seems. Maybe you can point me to where I assert such a ridiculous thing. I am a retired Naval officer and neither I nor the people I served with thought war was something "smart." Necessary,yes, but not smart. Only someone truly stupid could say war is something smart, or stupid for that matter.
I answered you. Rand's "choice" was no choice, so the question is not valid. My statement that might is always right is not a choice but a simple fact: might always prevails.