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1 posted on 07/25/2010 1:37:18 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: Alamo-Girl; kosta50; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; shibumi; xzins; TXnMA; hosepipe; marron; ...
FYI —

America doesn't have an established church. But she clearly does have a Christian heritage! Indeed, that heritage lies back of the American concept of unalienable individual rights.... This is what makes the American Revolution so utterly unlike the French....

2 posted on 07/25/2010 1:45:34 PM PDT by betty boop (Those who do not punish bad men are really wishing that good men be injured. — Pythagoras)
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To: betty boop

Thanks for the excellent analysis and the historical details. Seems to be right on target.

I’ll have to print and spend a lot more time with it.


3 posted on 07/25/2010 1:53:46 PM PDT by reasonisfaith (Rules will never work for radicals because they seek chaos. And don't even know it.)
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To: betty boop

Very interesting and insightful - thanks for posting. I’m currently in the middle of a book that explores the 1790’s from the perspective of France, America and Russia. From my perspective this is “spot on”.


5 posted on 07/25/2010 1:57:45 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: YHAOS

FYI!!!


6 posted on 07/25/2010 1:59:25 PM PDT by betty boop (Those who do not punish bad men are really wishing that good men be injured. — Pythagoras)
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To: All; Alamo-Girl
Oh drat, I just noticed my superscripts to the endnotes didn't make it into the text.... Though the endnotes are there, they don't point you to the place in the text to which they refer.

I'm so sorry!

9 posted on 07/25/2010 2:08:43 PM PDT by betty boop (Those who do not punish bad men are really wishing that good men be injured. — Pythagoras)
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To: betty boop

*Bump*

I’ve gotten to the point where see the French Revolution as kind of an abomination.


11 posted on 07/25/2010 2:10:28 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: betty boop
“…We are not the converts of Rousseau; we are not the disciples of Voltaire... Atheists are not our preachers; madmen are not our lawgivers...”

I love Burke. I just read through his "French Revolution" just this past month.

The currently sitting American president seems to be an activist of the French model. He is distinctly a post-modernist thinker, as an analysis of his words vis-à-vis his actions will show. Evidently he has no sympathy for the values, principles, and goals of the American Revolution, and has disparaged the Constitution — to which he freely swore an Oath of fidelity — on grounds that it is a system of negative liberties” that has outlived its usefulness.

Negative liberties are the very key to liberty. The fact that Obama rejects them reveals him as a jacobin, who sees your liberty as something to be overcome as he accumulates the power to implement his vision. Protecting your right to build your vision is for him not the purpose of government, as it was for Locke, it is an impediment to Obama implementing Obama's vision.

You have captured the essence of the current mob of vandals who have captured the congress and the White House. They create nothing, they know only how to overturn. Americans do not know the difference between Locke and Rousseau and it is all the difference in the world. It is the difference between a system based on liberty and a system based on the accumulation of power. The jacobins and obamists know only the accumulation of power. They do not love liberty, they smother it in its crib where ever they find it.

Excellent writing, as usual.

19 posted on 07/25/2010 3:05:50 PM PDT by marron
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; kosta50; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; shibumi; xzins; hosepipe; marron; ...
Nicely done!!!

I am a "seeker after root causes".

IIUC, the author is identifying the basing of our successful American Republic on the rights -- and right behavior of -- moral individuals as the key element that fostered its success and superiority over that of the "amoral libertine mob" foundation of the French Republique.

And, for America, both the essential, individual rights and the absolutely requisite individual moral absolutes proceed directly to the individual from our Creator (as opposed to being force-fed through the "intellectual" filter of any human-staffed organization or hierarchy).

~~~~~~~~~~~

Once the "bedrock" of our success to date is established and defined as Divinely moral independence, the terribly destructive danger of the amoral (or, more precisely, anti-moral collectivism promulgated by the current usurping regime is repugnanly evident!!

An awful question faces us: will national restoration and revival be possible via the ballot box -- or, (heaven forbid!) must it be through recourse to the bullet box?

~~~~~~~~~~~

IMHO, we face death as a nation. If survival requires "swallowing" one of the two remedies above, then, let us proceed forthwith to "take our medicine"!

31 posted on 07/25/2010 5:35:10 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: betty boop

One was child of the Reformation, the other was child of the Enlightment.


33 posted on 07/25/2010 6:23:45 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: betty boop

ping


56 posted on 07/25/2010 9:18:13 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl

Thanks for posting this Betty Boop. You and Alamo Girl post some of the best orginal content to digest on the site. Thanks again.


76 posted on 07/25/2010 11:12:51 PM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe

One of the best ways to study the difference between the two revolutions is to study the life of the Marquis de Lafayette.

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/americanrevolutio1/p/lafayette.htm

The representative of the French people, organized as a National Assembly, believing that the ignorance, neglect or contempt of the rights of man are the sole cause of public calamities and of the corruption of governments, have determined to set forth in a solemn declaration the natural, inalienable and sacred rights of man, in order that this declaration, being constantly before all the members of the social body, shall remind them continually of their rights and duties; in order that the acts of the legislative power, as well as those of the executive power, may be compared at any moment with the ends of all political institutions and may thus be more respected; and, lastly, in order that the grievances of the citizens, based hereafter upon simple and incontestable principles, shall tend to the maintenance of the constitution and redound to the happiness of all. Therefore the National Assembly recognizes and proclaims, in the presence and under the auspices of the Supreme Being, the following rights of man and of the citizen:

Article 1. Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions may only be founded upon the general good.

2. The aim of all political association is the preservation of the natural and imprescriptible rights of man. These rights are liberty, property, security and resistance to oppression.

3. The principle of all sovereignty resides essentially in the nation. No body nor individual may exercise any authority which does not proceed directly from the nation.

4. Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else; hence the exercise of the natural rights of each man has no limits except those which assure to the other members of the society the enjoyment of the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law.

5. Law can only prohibit such actions as are hurtful to society. Nothing may be prevented which is not forbidden by law, and no one may be forced to do anything not provided for by law.

6. Law is the expression of the general will. Every citizen has a right to participate personally or through his representative in its formation. It must be the same for all, whether it protects or punishes. All citizens, being equal in the eyes of the law, are equally eligible to all dignities and to all public positions and occupations, according to their abilities, and without distinction except that of their virtues and talents.

7. No person shall be accused, arrested or imprisoned except in the cases and according to the forms prescribed by law. Any one soliciting, transmitting, executing or causing to be executed any arbitrary order shall be punished. But any citizen summoned or arrested in virtue of the law shall submit without delay, as resistance constitutes an offense.

8. The law shall provide for such punishments only as are strictly and obviously necessary, and no one shall suffer punishment except it be legally inflicted in virtue of a law passed and promulgated before the commission of the offense.

9. As all persons are held innocent until they shall have been declared guilty, if arrest shall be deemed indispensable, all harshness not essential to the securing of the prisoner s person shall be severely repressed by law.

10. No one shall be disquieted on account of his opinions, including his religious views, provided their manifestation does not disturb the public order established by law.

l1. The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of man. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write and print with freedom, but shall be responsible for such abuses of this freedom as shall be defined by law.

12. The security of the rights of man and of the citizen requires public military force. These forces are, therefore, established for the good of all and not for the personal advantage of those to whom they shall be entrusted.

13. A common contribution is essential for the maintenance of the public forces and for the cost of administration. This should be equitably distributed among all the citizens in proportion to their means.

14. All the citizens have a right to decide, either personally or by their representatives, as to the necessity of the public contribution; to grant this freely; to know to what uses it is put; and to fix the proportion, the mode of assessment, and of collection, and the duration of the taxes.

15. Society has the right to require of every public agent an account of his administration.

16. A society in which the observance of the law is not assured, nor the separation of powers defined, has no constitution at all.

17. Since property is an inviolable and sacred right, no one shall be deprived thereof except where public necessity, legally determined, shall clearly demand it, and then only on condition that the owner shall have been previously and equitably indemnified.


86 posted on 07/26/2010 11:45:57 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: betty boop

bookmarking


91 posted on 07/26/2010 1:39:29 PM PDT by Lorica
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To: betty boop
Hi Kid!

Reminds me of my favorite Chapter of Hayek in The Constitution of Liberty where he is speaking of the two different traditions of Liberty, really the difference between the Scottish/English Enlightenment and the French Enlightenment.

CHAPTER FOUR

Sub-chapters 1 - 5
1. Though freedom is not a state of nature but an artifact of civilization, it did not arise from design. The institutions of freedom, like everything freedom has created, were not established because people foresaw the benefits they would bring. But, once its advantages were recognized, men began to perfect and extend the reign of freedom and, for that purpose, to inquire how a free society worked. This development of a theory of liberty took place mainly in the eighteenth century. It began in two countries, England and France. The first of these knew liberty; the second did not.

As a result, we have had to the present day two different traditions in the theory of liberty: one empirical and unsystematic, the other speculative and rationalistic –the first based on an interpretation of traditions and institutions which had spontaneously grown up and were but imperfectly understood, the second aiming at the construction of a utopia, which has often been tried but never successfully. Nevertheless, it has been the rationalistic, plausible, and apparently logical argument of the French tradition, with its flattering assumptions about the unlimited powers of human reason, that has progressively gained influence, while the less articulate and less explicit tradition of English freedom has been on the decline.

This distinction is obscured by the fact that what we have called the “French tradition” of liberty arose largely from an attempt to interpret British institutions and that the conceptions which other countries formed of British institutions were based mainly on their descriptions by French writers. The two traditions became finally confused when they merged in the liberal movement of the nineteenth century and when even leading British liberals drew as much on the French as on the British tradition. It was, in the end, the victory of the Benthamite Philosophical Radicals over the Whigs in England that concealed the fundamental difference which in more recent years has reappeared as the conflict between liberal democracy and “social” or totalitarian democracy.

This difference was better understood a hundred years ago than it is today. In the year of the European revolutions in which the two traditions merged, the contract between “Anglican” and “Gallican” liberty was still clearly described by an eminent German-American political philosopher. “Gallican Liberty,” wrote Francis Lieber in 1848, “is sought in the government, and according to an Anglican point of view, it is looked for in the wrong place, where it cannot be found. Necessary consequences of the Gallican view are, that the French look for the highest degree of political civilization in organization, that is, in the highest degree of interference by public power. The question whether this interference be despotism or liberty is decided solely by the fact who interferes, and for the benefit of which class the interference takes place, while according to the Anglican view this interference would always be either absolutism or aristocracy, and the present dictatorship of the ouvriers would appear to us an uncompromising aristocracy of the ouvriers.”

Since this was written, the French tradition has everywhere progressively displaced the English. To disentangle the two traditions it is necessary to look at the relatively pure forms in which they appeared in the eighteenth century. What we have called the “British Tradition” was made explicit mainly by a group of Scottish moral philosophers led by David Hume, Adam Smith and Adam Ferguson, seconded by their English contemporaries Josiah Tucker, Edmund Burke and William Paley, and drawing largely on a tradition rooted in the jurisprudent of the common law. Opposed to them was the tradition of the French Enlightenment, deeply imbued with Cartesian rationalism: the Encyclopedists and Rousseau, the Physiocrats and Condorcet, are their best know representatives. Of course, the division does not fully coincide with national boundries. Frenchmen, like Montesquieu and, later, Benjamin Constant and, above all, Alexis de Tocqueville are probably nearer to what we have called the “British” than to the “French” tradition. And in Thomas Hobbes, Britian as provided at least on e of the founders of rationalist tradition, not to speak of a whole generation of enthusiasts for the French Revolution, like Godwin, Priestly, Price, and Paine, who (like Jefferson after his stay in France) belong entirely to it.

2. Though these two groups are now commonly lumped together as ancestors of modern liberalism, there is hardly a greater contrast imaginable than that between their respective conceptions of the evolution and functioning of a social order and the role played in it by liberty. The difference is directly traceable to the predominance of an essentially empiricist view of the world in England and a rationalist approach in France. The main contrast in the practical conclusions to which these approaches led has recently been put, as follows: “One finds the essence of freedom in spontaneity and the absence of coercion, the other believes it to be realized only in the pursuit and attainment of an absolute collective purpose”, and “one stands for organic, slow, half-conscious growth, the other for doctrinaire deliberativeness; one for trail and error procedure, the other for an enforced solely valid pattern.” It is the second view, as J. L. Talmon has shown in an important book from which this description is taken, that has become the origin of totalitarian democracy.

The sweeping success of the political doctrines that stem from the French tradition is probably due to their great appeal to human pride and ambition. But we must not forget that the political conclusions of the two schools derive from the different conceptions of how society works. In this respect, the British philosophers laid the foundations of a profound and essentially valid theory, while the rationalist school was simply and completely wrong.

Those British philosophers have given us an interpretation of the growth of civilization that is still the indispensable foundation of the argument for liberty. They find the origin of institutions, not in contrivance or design, but in the survival of the successful. Their view is expressed in terms of “how nations stumble upon establishments which are indeed the result of human action but not the execution of human design.” It stresses that what we call political order is much less the product of our ordering intelligence than is commonly imagined. As their immediate successors saw it, what Adam Smith and his contemporaries did was “to resolve almost all that has been ascribed to positive institution into the spontaneous and irresistible development of certain obvious principles—and to show how little contrivance or political wisdom the most complicated and apparently artificial schemes of policy might have been erected.”

This “anti-rationalistic insight into historical happenings that Adam Smith shares with Hume, Adam Ferguson, and others” enabled them for the first time to comprehend how institutions and morals, language and law, have evolved by a process of cumulative growth and that it is only with and within this framework that human reason has grown and can successfully operate. Their argument is directed throughout against the Cartesian conception of an independently and antecedently existing human reason that invented these institutions and against the conception that civil society formed by some wise original legislator or an original “social contract.” The latter idea of intelligent men coming together for deliberation about how to make the world anew is perhaps the most characteristic outcome of thos design theories. It found its perfect expression when the leading theorist of the French Revolution, Abbe Sieyes, exhorted the revolutionary assembly “to act like men just emerging from the state of nature and coming together for the purpose of signing a social contract.”

The ancients understood the conditions of liberty better than that. Cicero quotes Cato as saying that the Roman constitution was superior to that of other states because it “was based upon the genius, not of one man, but of many: it was founded, not in one generation, but in a long period of several centuries and many ages of men. For, said he, there never has lived a man possessed of so great a genius that nothing could escape him, nor could the combined powers of all men living at one time possibly make all the necessary provisions for the future without the aid of actual experience and the test of time.” Neither republican Rome not Athens – the tow free nations of the ancient world—could thus serve as and example for rationalists. For Descartes, the fountainhead of the rationalist tradition, it was indeed Sparta that provided the model; for her greatness “was due not the pre-eminence of each of its laws in particular…but to the circumstance that, originated by a single individual, they all tended to the same end.” And it was Sparta which became the ideal of liberty for Rousseau as well as for Robespierre and Saint-Just and for most of the later advocates of “social” or totalitarian democracy.

Like the ancient, the modern British conception of liberty grew against the background of a comprehension, first achieved by the lawyers, of how institutions had developed. “There are many things specifically in laws and governments,” wrote Chief Justice Hale in the seventeenth century in a critique of Hobbes, “that mediately, remotely and consequentially are reasonable to be approved, though the reason of the party does not presently or immediately and distinctly see its reasonableness…Long experience makes more discoveries touching conveniences or inconveniences of laws than is possible for the wisest council of men at first to foresee. And that those amendments and supplements that through the various experiences of wise and knowing men have been applied to any law must needs be better suited to the convenience of laws, than the best invention of the most pregnant wits not aided by such a series and tract of experience…This add to the difficulty of the present fathoming of the reason of laws, which, though it commonly be called the mistress of fools, yet certainly it is the wisest expedient among mankind, and discovers those defects and supplies which no wit of man could either at once foresee or aptly remedy…It is not necessary that the reasons of the institution should be evident unto us. It is sufficient that they are instituted laws that give a certainty to us, and it is reasonable to observe them though the particular reason of the institution appear not.”

3. From these conceptions gradually grew a body of social theory that showed how, in the relations among men, complex and orderly and, in a very definite sense, purposive institutions might grow up which owed little to design, which were not invented but arose from the separate action of many men who did nto know what they were doing. This demonstration that something greater than man’s individual mind may grow from men’s fumbling efforts represented in some ways an even greater challenge to all design theories than even the later theory of biological evolution. For the first time it was shown that an evident order which was not the product of designing human intelligence, but that there was a third possibility—the emergence of order as the result of adaptive evolution.

Since the emphasis we shall have to place on the role that selection plays in this process of social evolution today is likely to create the impression that we are borrowing the idea from biology, it is worth stressing that it was from the theories of social evolution that Darwin and his contemporaries derived the suggestion for their theories. Indeed, one of those Scottish philosophers who first developed these ideas anticipated Darwin even in the biological field, and later application of these conceptions by the various “historical schools” in law and language rendered the idea that similarity of structure might be accounted for by a common origin a common place in the study of social phenomena long before it was applied to biology. It is unfortunate that at a later date the social sciences, instead of building on these beginnings in their own field, re-imported some of these ideas from biology and with them brought in such conceptions as “natural selection,” “struggle for existence,” and “survival of the fittest,’ which are not appropriate in their field; for in social evolution, the decisive factor is not the selection of the physical and inherited properties of the individuals but the selection by imitation of successful institutions and habits. Though this operates also through the success of individuals and groups, what emerges is not an inheritable attribute of individuals, but ideas and skills – in short, the whole cultural inheritance which is passed on by learning and imitation.

4. A detailed comparison of the two traditions would require a separate book; here we can merely single out a few of the crucial points on which they differ.

While the rationalist tradition assumes that man was originally endowed with both the intellectual and moral attributes that enabled him to fashion civilization deliberately, the evolutionists made it clear that civilization was the accumulated hard-earned result of trial and error; that it was the sum of experience, in part handed from generation to generation as explicit knowledge, but to a larger extent embodied in tools and institutions which had proved themselves superior—institutions whose significance we might discover by analysis, but which will also serve men’s ends without men’s understanding them. The Scottish theorists were very much aware of how delicate this artificial structure of civilization was which rested upon man’s more primitive and ferocious instincts being tamed and checked by institutions that he neither had designed not could control. They were very far from holding such naïve views, later unjustly laid at the door of their liberalism, as the “natural goodness of man,” the existence of “a natural harmony of interests,” or the beneficent effects of “natural liberty” (even though they did sometimes use the last phrase). They knew that it required the artifices of institutions and traditions to reconcile the conflicts of interest. Their problem was “that universal mover in human nature, self love, may receive such direction in this case (as in all others) as to promote the public interest by those efforts it shall make towards pursuing its own.” It was not “natural liberty” in any literal sense, but the institutions evolved to secure “life, liberty, and property,” which made these individual efforts beneficial. Not Locke, nor Hume, nor Smith, nor Burke, could have argued, as Bentham did, that “every law is an evil for every law is an infraction of liberty.” Their argument was never a complete laissez faire argument, which, as the very words show, is also part of the French rationalist tradition and in its literal sense was never defended by any of the English classical economists. They knew better than most of their later critics that it was not some sort of magic, but the evolution of “well constructed institutions,” where the “rules and privileges of contending interests and compromised advantages” would be reconciled, that had successfully channeled individual efforts to socially beneficial aims. In fact, their argument was never antistate as such, or anarchistic, which is the logical outcome of the rationalistic laissez faire doctrine; it was an argument that accounted both for the proper functions of the state and for the limits of state action.

The difference is particularly conspicuous in the respective assumptions of the two schools concerning individual human nature. The rationalistic design theories were necessarily based on the assumption of the individual man’s propensity for rational action and his natural intelligence and goodness. The evolutionary theory, on the contrary, showed how certain institutional arrangements would induce man to use his intelligence to the best effect and how institutions could be framed so that bad people could do least harm. The antirationalist tradition is here closer to the Christian tradition of the fallibility and sinfulness of man, while the perfectionism of the rationalist is in irreconcilable conflict with it. Even such a celebrated figment as the “economic man’ was not an original part of the British evolutionary tradition. It would be only a slight exaggeration to say that, in the view of those British philosophers, man was by nature lazy and indolent, improvident and wasteful, and that it was only by the force of circumstances that he could be made to behave economically or could learn carefully to adjust his means to his ends. The homo oeconomicus was explicitly introduced, with much else that belongs in the rationalist rather than the evolutionary tradition, only by the younger Mill.

5. The greatest difference between the two views, however, is in their respective ideas about the role of traditions and the value of all the other product of unconscious growth proceeding throughout the ages. It would hardly be unjust to say that the rationalistic approach is here opposed to almost all that is the distinct product of liberty and that gives liberty its value. Those who believe that all useful institutions are deliberate contrivances and who cannot conceive of anything serving a human purpose that has not been consciously designed are almost of necessity enemies of freedom. For them freedom means chaos.

To the empiricist evolutionary tradition, on the other hand, the value of freedom consists mainly in the opportunity that it provides for the growth of the undesigned, and the beneficial functioning of a free society rests largely on the existence of such freely grown institutions. There probably never has existed a genuine belief in freedom, and there certainly has been no successful attempt to operate a free society, without a genuine reverence for grown institutions, for customs and habits and “all those securities of liberty which arise from regulation of long prescription and ancient ways.” Paradoxial as it may appear, it is probably true that a successful free society will always in a large measure be a tradition-bound society.

This esteem for tradition and custom, of grown institutions, and of rules whose origins and rationale we do not know does not, of course, mean – as Thomas Jefferson believed with a characteristic rationalist misconception – that we “ascribe to men of preceding age a wisdom more than human, and… suppose what they did beyond amendment.” Far from assuming that those who created the institutions were wiser than we are, the evolutionary view is based on the insight that the result of the experimentation of many generations may embody more experience than any on man possesses.

Hayek goes on at length in the balance of this chapter to discuss the role of religous belief in moral structure and how the two traditions accept it or reject it.

Gertrude Himmelfarb also has a great book comparing the two and adding in an "American Enlightenment" for a third distiction.

R. Kirk often called the American Revolution a "revolution averted, not made" as he along with many characterize it in actuality a colonial rebellion, meant at preserving the status quo in place in the colonies for the prior 200 years in the face of King-in-Parliment encroachment on liberty.

97 posted on 07/26/2010 2:32:45 PM PDT by KC Burke
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To: betty boop

It’s not at all clear that all school children learn anything in common, let alone information that might make them like their country.


114 posted on 07/27/2010 12:25:08 AM PDT by Seeing More Clearly Now
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To: betty boop

...the currently sitting American president seems to be an activist of the French model... he has no sympathy for the values, principles, and goals of the American Revolution, and has disparaged the Constitution — to which he freely swore an Oath of fidelity — on grounds that it is a “system of negative liberties” that has outlived its usefulness.

Indeed, it appears that he is doing everything in his power finally to drive a silver stake through the very heart of American liberty...

Well said. That pretty much sums it up.

186 posted on 07/28/2010 1:01:34 AM PDT by sargon (I don't like the sound of these "boncentration bamps")
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To: betty boop
Got drawn into this thread through looking for something else.

Girl, you can write.

What more needs to be said?

Cheers!

196 posted on 07/28/2010 8:23:06 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: betty boop; YHAOS; xzins; Alamo-Girl; wideawake; P-Marlowe; KC Burke; stfassisi; Quix
Now, perhaps, dear Sister, we can resume actually discussing your most excellent article/essay, Two Revolutions, Two Views of Man...
287 posted on 08/01/2010 6:58:11 PM PDT by TXnMA
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To: betty boop
You can see the problems immediately if you boil it down to the promises, or slogans if you will: On one hand, Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness versus liberty, equality, fraternity.

Neither life, nor liberty, nor the pursuit of happiness require active government intervention; on the contrary, the juxtaposition of the latter two concepts along with "life" strongly imply that they are similarly present from birth.

On the other hand, a government which promises both "equality" and "fraternity" would require massive governmental intervention; certainly a federal Bureau Of Equality (I believe the present-day British actually have one) would be called for. Similarly, the promise of "fraternity" is a gigantic governmental mandate waiting to happen.

Unfortunately, most political revolutions have followed the French and not the American model, with horrific results. It wasn't an accident that there was essentially no retaliation against American Tories, while our first thought when we think of the French Revolution is Terror and guillotines.

334 posted on 08/03/2010 12:10:53 AM PDT by denydenydeny (You're not only wrong. You're wrong at the top of your voice. --Spencer Tracy, Bad Day at Black Rock)
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To: betty boop

Bump for study. Sorry did not find earlier.


513 posted on 08/19/2010 9:04:13 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (They are the vultures of Dark Crystal screeeching their hatred and fear into the void ....)
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