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To: John Locke
There is zero evidence that these constants are tunable in the first place, any more than the value of pi was finely tuned so that billiard balls could be round. With a better fundamental theory, we should be able to calculate their values from first principles, just as we calculate the value if pi.

You're entering some deep philosophical waters, here.

The problem is, we don't have enough physical data to determine which of the various flavors of string theory / supersymmetry / turtles all the way down is the "true" one: and then there is the controversy over Everett's "many worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics: which I understand even Everett's PhD advisor, John Wheeler, later rejected.

Without the knowledge of whether there "could have been" (whatever that means!) more than one "universe" we don't know if the values "could" vary.

And if there is only one universe, we then don't know for sure why the constants "have" the values they possess.

As to your Goldilocks analogy, you are missing an important point -- if there were lots of inhabited worlds that would be taken by the skeptic as confirmation that life arose surely by natural processes, without need for the awkward invention of a creator: but if there is only one inhabited world, with most species extinct, that is taken as evidence that a creator wouldn't be so clumsy and inefficient, and have a more hospitable universe.

The fallacy in the argument is that we have no knowledge a priori for deciding what a creator is like, and no way we can guarantee will be efficacious for testing said theories.

So any models of theism end up being as crude as the joke of the physicist modeling a thoroughbred as a spherical horse.

And of course it is unsatisfying, not tidy, and generally in poor form to retreat from experimental empiricism when investigating theories of a putative divine being or beings, especially when such methods have proved so, well, fruitful, in all other endeavors.

One thing which may help to resolve this is the realization that if there *is* a creator, they may take umbrage at being poked, modeled, experimented on and so forth, by a mere creature: just imagine how much a tenured professor of clinical psychology would be pissed off upon finding out that his lab mice were in cahoots to investigate and explain HIM.

Then exponentiate it, since the prof did not create the mice, directly or indirectly.

And before taking the obvious answer, recall that Hitchhiker's Guide and its sequels were FICTION.

Cheers!

57 posted on 07/21/2010 9:02:59 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
Great points. What's your opinion of using “revealed truths” from Judeo-Christian history for an indication of both the existence and nature of God?
58 posted on 07/21/2010 10:09:31 PM PDT by Shark24
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To: grey_whiskers

Thanks for the most thoughtful comments. I agree that our theories are far too immature to be coming even close to a “theory of everything”. I’m also skeptical whether such a theory - if attainable - would add anythiung to the debate about a possible creator. But I think you’re right that the empirical approach is by far the most promising.

Take care.


68 posted on 07/25/2010 6:23:01 PM PDT by John Locke
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