Testimony of a Former Irish Priest

BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

[D-fendr]

Immaculate conception is derived from Incarnation theology, not the other way around.

The “unstated” premise can be true or false and not affect the conclusion since it is not necessary.

Orthodox (in the small O sense) proclaim the Trinity in the same formulation as Catholics - yet they do not proclaim the Immaculate Conception.

[marbren]

No not WELS, LCMS. Here is one to think about. What would you say if an alien landed in a UFO on the Washington mall and came out and pronounced that Jesus Christ was actually one of them. Would your pew still be comfortable? How would your church and Pastor handle it.

[Mad Dawg]

I THINK it’s not so much our minds as our choice of words.

I THINK an excommunicate person is just under severe discipline. He doesn’t have to repeat the ritess of initiation if he repents; he still has access to the sacrament of confession; and at thebrink of death he can receive communion.

He’s not “un-calflicked”; he’s just in severe time-out.

[xone]

Here is one to think about. What would you say if an alien landed in a UFO on the Washington mall and came out and pronounced that Jesus Christ was actually one of them. Would your pew still be comfortable? How would your church and Pastor handle it.

Before or after we stopped laughing? When Jesus comes again, there won't be a question about Who He IS. False messiahs from space are false messiahs period. This scenario admittedly isn't one I have considered, but now forewarned, I still laugh.

[Mad Dawg]

I find it disingenuous to try to trap someone into a logical conclusion without disclosing all the premises that lead to the conclusion.

Me too.

[Mad Dawg]

Lo here! Lo There! Lo up in the sky!

[D-fendr]

There’s a simple test in this case:

Build your syllogism including premise being examined, state this premise as false.

Do the same thing a second time, this time state that premise as true.

If there is no effect on the conclusion, the premise is irrelevant.

[xone]

Recall the 4th verse of A Mighty Fortess Is Our God

4. The Word they still shall let remain

Nor any thanks have for it;

He's by our side upon the plain

With His good gifts and Spirit.

And take they our life,

Goods, fame, child and wife,

Let these all be gone,

They yet have nothing won;

The Kingdom our remaineth.

Hymn #262

The Lutheran Hymnal

Text: Psalm 46

Author: Martin Luther, 1529

Translated by: composite

Titled: "Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott"

Composer: Martin Luther, 1529

Tune: "Ein' feste Burg"

1st Published in: Klug's Gesangbuch

Town: Wittenberg, 1529

A Mighty Fortress

Or a line from The Church's One Foundation

"We have God's own promise and that can never fail."

So no, I don't worry about an alien claiming Christ, he'd have to prove it. And while aliens may have advanced technology, rolling up the sky like a scroll probably isn't one of them, not to mention the other signs of the last day.

[Deo volente]

It seems to me that in the background of his criticism of your logic, there lurks an unstated premise/conclusion (not sure which) that Jesus could be God ONLY if Mary were immaculately conceived, which I think would be absurd.

Am I reading this correctly? The disclaimer here is that I do not possess a Ph.D. in Philosophy or Logic.

[Quix]

If you have trouble with the accuracy of what an idol is, you can often have troubles being accurate about who Jesus is.

. . . . as well as serious trouble obeying HIM.

[Quix]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Quix]

EXCELLENT POINTS.

[Quix]

An important question folks are going to have to deal with.

Thx.

[Quix]

The shadow government

these folks:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2

reportedly has a very thick book from the purported “ET’s” on RELIGION.

They claim to have created all the great religious figures of history including Jesus . . . done the miracles for them etc. etc. etc.

I believe it is part of the BIBLICAL GREAT DECEPTION of the END TIMES.

[the_conscience]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Romanist theology make an argument that Immaculate Conception is a necessary precondition to Incarnation?

If that be the case then IC is a necessary premise for Romanists.

[Mad Dawg]

I am no Ph.D, nor a Ph.D's son. I am a (former) herder of sheep. I would dress sycamores if I didn't think they looked fine nekkid.

I think it always gets us in trouble to try to use hypothesis contrary to fact (or, in this case, to dogma) because you can't change one thing without opening up changes to all the other things. "Suppose God had Not done such and such ...." well how many other things would He have done or not done?

In the Narnia books Aslan always rebuffs questions about what might have been.

I think the significant item in the objection is the assumption that our arguments are intentionally specious, in the sense of falsely attractive. And that's significant not only because it reveals the cultural suspicion that ALL of Catholicism is wily but because it implicitly accepts the contention of both Freud and Marx that pure reason is really non-existent or that, if it exists, it is not authoritative. An argument cannot stand, it seems to be thought, if it turns out there is some hidden motive.

Consider this! If I say All man are mortal; Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates is mortal, the validity of that is held to depend on my sincerity and candor! I think whether I wish Socrates dead or wish he could live forever, the Argument stands.

[Deo volente]

There’s no such thing as “Romanist theology”. There’s Catholic theology, is that what you meant?

[D-fendr]

but doesn’t [Catholic] theology

Irrelevant, you have a simple syllogism that your debating premises to. It could be about Jack or Harry being human and the same requirements apply.

[the_conscience]

BTW, I know there are a couple of posts of yours I have not replied to.

Are you interested in my responding to the absurdity of political correctness or the theological issues, or both.

[Quix]

My wallpaper just came up with the beautiful pic of the lion on a hilltop in silouette with the caption

GIVE UNTO THE LORD
THE GLORY
DUE HIS NAME!
Psalm 29:2
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Playing loose with the NAMES AND TITLES OF GOD is playing loose with the very structure of reality . . . and particularly the structure of the reality or not, of one's RELATIONSHIP with THE GREAT I AM. ALMIGHTY GOD happens to be VERY ZEALOUS about HIS NAME.