Posted on 07/07/2010 3:31:19 PM PDT by Colofornian
Sam, what does this article say?
From the article? ...as May 15, 1999, the LDS Church News ran an article entitled "Hands-on opportunity." Speaking of Joseph Smith, it read, "He had also been instructed by an angel, Moroni, who had met with him each year for four years. On his last visit, he was entrusted with plates of solid gold, which he had been translating by the power of the Spirit."
So, #1, the LDS News says these were "plates of SOLID gold."
Then when you read this article to see how the Mormon apologists try to explain away the "solid gold" nature of these, you realize something: That even Lds apologists don't believe what the LDS News says: that these were "solid gold." They don't, by lack of faith, believe Smith could have run "at top speed" carrying solid gold plates. So they attempt to explain it away. Rather than the "by faith" argument you try to make...Mormon leaders are instead claiming in a round-about way, "Well, we don't believe it, either." (They try desperately to reduce the gold plate poundage)
Then, when you look at De Groote's article in the July 7 Mormon Times (linked in my first several posts of this thread) you realize that Mormons are still trying to "explain it away" -- by lack of faith -- that Smith wasn't really running at top speed with solid gold.
#2 Note the quote I gave above about Smith "translating" the plates. On this, yes, Mormons do express "faith" in this. But you -- and Mormons -- neglect the biblical principle of nobility re: this:
11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11)
This principle shows that a noble person in God's eyes always compares new supposed revelations from God by the old ones. Mormons do just the opposite. If a supposed "new" revelation is at odds with an old one -- they just simply dump the old one. They did this with anti-polygamy revelations in the 1830s...then pro-polygamy revelations from the 1840s and 1850s...they dumped Adam as God seer statements from the 1850s-->1870s...they dumped racist doctrines they held for almost 150 years...etc.
I belong to neither church and have no use for any of the mythology that surrounds them. I have read a few thousand pages of Joseph Campbell's work on mythology and have a few college credits on the topic so I have a fair understanding of what constitutes a myth. As I am sure you understand the notion of a virgin impregnated by a god describes the Mithra cult or the cult of Dionysius both of which predate Christianity
The fact is, as I just told Raider Sam, Mormon apologists actually don't believe the myth that Joseph Smith ran at top speed carrying several hundred pounds of gold plates.
(That's why the citations in this thread's article-- as well as the July 7 Mormon Times article by De Groote...features a number of other explanatory considerations...
...for example, they try to tell you it was a copper-gold mixture...)
Given this is the case, this myth is not only ridiculous to the non-believer -- but it shows it's ridiculous to the supposed inside "believer" as well.
Otherwise, why would they try to explain the "solid gold" component of it away? If they believed Joseph was supernaturally aided by God to run "at top speed" carrying several hundred pounds of solid gold, well, your comment and Raider Sam's comment would be worth pondering...
...However, given that the two Lds apologist organizations -- FARM & FAIR -- have not taken that route...
...given that the Mormon Times (via De Groote) has not taken that route...
...I'm not exactly sure why you & Raider Sam -- both non-Mormons -- are coming aboard to try to prop up a posture these Mormon leaders haven't even tried to assume.
Again, keep in the mind the main focus of this thread has been the weight of the gold plates...and Smith's ability to transfer them three miles so quickly and so readily...
Im fine with examining it the way a jury would. Can you examine the Adam and Eve story in the same way. They are both stories that take faith to believe in. I dont think any Hebrew writers were eyewitnesses to the fall of man.
I am sorry I should have taken it as sarcasm. The opening looked so good not to take it. I suppose if you were LDS you would have posted a searing personal attack.
Good point. Some of these posts are purely for the non-mormon. There are so many other doctrinal problems with the LDS faith to argue about but these stories of Joseph Smith are fantasy at best. Joseph Smith had enough different versions of his first vision that anyone could pick and choose which one they liked best.
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