Posted on 07/07/2010 3:00:39 AM PDT by Scanian
Seems that you have to be one wild party animal to be a RC priest these days.... I couldn’t do it, I prefer a quiet, secular, hetro lifestyle.
Richard Hooker
You wrote:
“Taking the topic to the points you are trying to make is typical of those who fail to see the problem and rather divert the clear topic to something else......”
You’re full of it. I have never failed to see what the problem is in regard to this story. I also did not divert the topic. Look at post #2.
“we all know who uses this as a tactic in order to continue to cover the clear problems within the church.”
Really? Who? Then tell it to the person who posted #2.
“People are being abused....what this man did to his congregation is “spiritual rape” for the pleasures he indulged himself with..”
Right. And who here said otherwise?
“in a lifestyle diametrically opposed to God’s clear word. He needs to be prosecuted and jailed for his crimes........”
Yep. And who here has said otherwise?
All the Catholic Priests I know seem to be missing out on the wild animalistic partying. They're just quietly (or not so quietly) living out their vocation of preaching the Gospel and serving the people of their parish.
Consequently, the press ignores them.
Perhaps the problem is that they're Catholic Priests. You seem to be referring to Royal Crown priests. I'm not quite sure what those are ...
Ok, so we are even! Now, how about some reparations for the slaves you sold us?
I never sold any slaves to anyone. I also never owned any.
Actually while the Vatican was collecting money by the sale of indulgences and relics to build a castle for the pope.. Calvin was busy building a free and educated society
Calvin .... set out to create the perfect society under God's ultimate rule. His covenantal or contractual view of church and of society as voluntary associations, with rulers (magistrates) and those who lead chosen by and accountable to the members became the basis of civil society and eventually of political organization in Europe, North America and elsewhere. On the one hand, Calvin recognized social responsibility; on the other he stressed individual responsibility to live a good, productive and moral life before God. Stressing the dignity of man, Calvin's social reforms included relief for the poor, construction of hospitals, schools (which were free), new prisons, consumer protection laws, provisions for refugees, and a sanitation system that made Geneva one of the cleanest and healthiest cities in Europe. Calvin was morally strict but humane, almost a humanist in his concern to reach the heart not only the mind of men and women.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/John_Calvin
It was the work of the deacons to administer funds for the poor and the sick and to look after the maintenance of the public hospital. Provision was also made for medical care for the poor in their own homes. Begging was strictly forbidden. A hospital recently established for travelers passing through the town was also to be maintained. There was a separate hospital for the plague.
http://vlib.iue.it/carrie/texts/carrie_books/gilbert/14.html
It was the protestants in America that started "Sunday school" to teach the illiterate how to read so they could study the scriptures..
I take nothing away from the Roman church's hospitals or schools but to claim that as an exclusive accomplishment when in fact protestants can point to Geneva
You wrote:
“Calvin was busy building a free and educated society”
One already existed - Christendom. After all Calvin was educated by Catholics. Also, Calvin was actually setting up a ditatorship that penalized those who dared to drink or dance at the wrong time (according to the upstarts) and was more than willing to put to death its enemies by burning (even though it possessed no such authority to condemn.
...and the rest he p**sed away.
As written, the comment refers to Harvard a college that got public support by the Crown when it was founded in the 17th century. This country never collected taxes for the Catholic church.
Calvin came from a wealthy family and was educated because of his families wealth
(Frenchman, born in the town of Noyon outside of Paris in 1509 to a relatively prestigious family. John’s father, Gérard, was a notary in the city of Noyon and his mother, Jeanne le Franc, was the daughter of a wealthy local innkeeper. When John was fourteen years old, his parents sent him to the Collège de la Marche, where it was expected that he enter into the priesthood.
http://www.everything.com/who-was-john-calvin/
)
...The idea that Rome wanted to have an educated membership flies in the face of the excuse the church gives for not distributing the bible and for the 1st use of statues.. the people could not read anyway so they did not need access to the scriptures and the statues were first used to tel the gospel story to an illiterate people .
That is why protestants wanted men literate so they could read the word of God.. so Geneva started public schools and Protestants had "sunday schools " in America
You wrote:
“Calvin came from a wealthy family and was educated because of his families wealth”
Nope. He was educated because of the Church. If he had shown promise - but had no money - he might very well have been educated anyway...by the Church.
By the way, Calvin’s father made his living from the Church. Did you even know that? He wanted his sons to be priests. Calvin’s first job was arranged by his father when he became a clerk for the local bishop. He attended Catholic colleges and universities - then again there was no other kind at the time.
“...The idea that Rome wanted to have an educated membership flies in the face of the excuse the church gives for not distributing the bible and for the 1st use of statues..”
Incorrect. The Church wanted to educated those it could, but most people were too busy trying to raise enough food to feed themselves. That’s just a fact. Most people could not afford schools - even with generous help offered by the Church - until recently in history and that’s mostly because governments picked up the tab at that point.
“the people could not read anyway so they did not need access to the scriptures and the statues were first used to tel the gospel story to an illiterate people .”
No. Statues were first used to glorify God, His incarnation, and Him again through His saints. It was stain glass windows that were used to instruct the illiterate and also Biblia pauperum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblia_pauperum Singular statues were rarely used for instruction because they offered little opportunity for it. Collections, however, could be used. The facades to Chartres comes to mind immediately. 4,000 to 6,000 sculptures offers many chances for instruction.
“That is why protestants wanted men literate so they could read the word of God..”
I don’t think so. I think Protestants wanted to make men literate to further the Protestant revolution. Take, for instance, the fact that Foxe’s Book of Martyrs was a mandated book ordered to be placed in all public worship places in Protestant England. The same was true or the KJV, but Foxe’s book was a propaganda piece designed with spuring on hatred of the Catholic Church. When Catholics learned to read, what besides the Bible and prayer books were they encouraged to read? The Lives of the Saints. Catholics were taught by their reading to pursue holiness. Protestants were taught to pursue hatred of God’s Church.
“so Geneva started public schools and Protestants had “sunday schools “ in America”
And Catholics had schools dating back to the 2nd century AD - that’s 1300 years before Protestants existed. Protestant public schools were exactly that - even in America. They enforced Protestant obedience and “orthodoxy”. They were tools of the Protestant state and perpetuated anti-Catholic hatred.
As anyone could discover:
“As historian Father Richard Shaw says, “Irish Catholic children…were being expected to attend schools where the King James Bible was read, where Protestant hymns were being sung, where prayers were being recited, but most importantly where textbooks and the entire slant of the teaching was very much anti-Irish and very much anti-Catholic.”” http://www.pbs.org/kcet/publicschool/photo_gallery/photo2.html
bookmark
Funny that protestants found a way to do it..
Lets face it education was for the wealthy male children ...in france secular or religious education was available to them ...the serfs and poor went uneducated because of the cost of it ..the church made no effort to educate those that could not pay ..
” ..the church made no effort to educate those that could not pay .. “
You continue to demonstrate your total lack of historical literacy. Very sad.
Both the delay of confirmation, in the case of Luther and Calvin, and the delay of baptism, in the case of the Anabaptists, made the proper education of children imperative. A main premise of the Protestant Reformation was that individual Christians could communicate directly with God through prayer and study of the Scripture. The reformers sought to foster this relationship by providing catechisms and establishing schools to teach both boys and girls to read. >Luther and Calvin each, in their efforts to aid in the training of children, produced catechisms that could be used by parents and ministers to teach children and adults in need of religious instruction. Such catechisms were written in the form of questions and responses about the basic tenets of the Christian faith. They were printed in the vernacular (for example, German or English, rather than Latin), in simple language, and could be expeditiously published and distributed across a region with the aid of the printing press, which had been in use in Europe since the 1450s.
Both boys and girls were expected to learn such catechisms at home, at church, and even at school. Girls' schools and coeducational schools were both established during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, but schools for boys appeared more rapidly. Girls were more often expected to receive their education at home, focusing on the catechism in order to learn pious behavior. Scholars continue to debate the effectiveness of these efforts at education and indoctrination in different parts of Europe. It is generally agreed that, while the reformers' efforts at education did not succeed as perfectly or completely as they hoped, literacy rates across sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Europe improved more quickly in Protestant areas than in Catholic areas. Ultimately, the schools created during the Reformation became a part of the standard European educational systems.
Luke 6:22How blessed are you whenever people hate you, avoid you, insult you, and slander you because of the Son of Man"
1 Peter 4:14 If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you"
Cut n paste is not scholarship. You simply demonstrate continued ignorance. Get help.
You wrote:
“Funny that protestants found a way to do it..”
I don’t think they did. There were illiterate Protestant Germans in the late 19th century that I know of. The theft helped them accomplish wat they did do, however. When the Protestants stole Church property they suddenly had wealth to build up their increasingly secular societies. Ironically it was Protestant propaganda which they used to not only accomplish the theft but also the deformation of society into a secular modern world. Still, even in most Protestant societies universal literacy was not reached until the 19th century - just like most Catholic societies. Württemberg claimed it had universal literacy only in the 19th century. It was a Protestant country and the seat of Tubingen (Protestant) University. The Lutheran contribution toward standardized education is well known. Like communism, however, one of its purposes was the creation of a revolutionary generation of sorts - one which would hate the Catholic Church and slavishly obey the German state. Catholic education was about the perfection of the soul ad producing saints. Lutheran education was about producing more Luthers and yet some how socially controlling them. Even the criteria used to prove “Universal literacy” right up to the 20th century is suspect. If a person could read the Small Catechism he was said to be literate. Thankfully the Germans no longer use that method realizing the obvious pitfall in it. Even in modern times Protestant Germans are struggling with literacy. I don’t think it is an accident that Protestant Bremen had to begin a literacy program for German speaking people in 1980!!! That’s 460 years after the beginning of Protestantism. I also would not be surprised to see that some Catholic Germans are struggling as well. Most experts say that between 0.75 to 3% of the total population of ethnic Germans is assumed to be illiterate. That’s a small number, but it shows universal literacy was never achieved. Andrea Linde compiled many of these facts. It might do you well to look into Linde’s work. http://www.statvoks.no/forward/TranslationLinde.pdf
“Lets face it education was for the wealthy male children ...”
No. I think it was for males mostly yes, but not just for the wealthy. We far too many facts about poor students, scholarships, benefices and so one to be fooled into making the eror you just did.
“in france secular or religious education was available to them ...the serfs and poor went uneducated because of the cost of it ..the church made no effort to educate those that could not pay ..”
Wrong. As anyne who actually studied history, rather than simply parroting anti-Cathoic propaganda, would know:
“Many a medieval boy, poor, but of promising mind, was privately tutored by his parish priest; and the large funds at the disposal of the Church made it possible for ambitious poor boys to go on to the grammar schools and even to the universities. It is an interesting fact about the Middle Age that “poor scholars” greatly outnumbered rich scholars, and that some of the foremost writers, students, statesmen, even popes, began their careers as poor boys.” http://www.korcula.net/history/mmarelic/midculture.htm
Back when I was a grad student one of the seminars I took - under the tutelage of a real master of medieval history - was on medieval universities. My paper topic was the financial foundation of German universities. Where did they get their seed money. I was amazed at what I discovered. I had no idea there were that many universities in Germany in the Middle Ages. I guess I was still laboring under the anti-Catholic myths and propaganda I had grown up assuming were true or partially true. Again and again I discovered that there were thousands and thousands of scholarships and funds and colleges (a place to sleep, eat and study while at university) for poor students.
I simply have no reason to believe you know anything about this subject at all.
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