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To: Tzfat
Jacob said, "רָאִיתִי" [rayiti], which can mean, "I see, I behold, I perceive" etc. The word does not always mean to see with the eye.

The phrase "face to face" as it appears in your English Bible does NOT say that in Hebrew. It is NOT a mechanical translation as you imply. It is "פָּנִים אֶל־פָּנִים" [panyim-el panyim] which literally means: "sides to sides." The word "face" is not found in the Hebrew. Also, the word "panyim" here is is PLURAL, eg. "sides to sides." Even if it meant "face" it would be "faces to faces."

Lastly, the word "אֱ-הִים" [ekohim] often means "G0d" but is also used for angels.

Although many will agree that the translation of "I saw G0d face to face" is acceptible - it is NOT literal as you imply.

This is what the verse says in the English translation...

Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

But since it's wrong, perhaps you would be willing to post the actual accurate verse translated from the accurate Hebrew into English so we could see what the sentence actually says...

The KJV translaters claim they used the same Hebrew words that are used in the Jewish Hebrew Bibles...And the Hebrew words don't match what you posted...

Perhaps you could tell us the source of your Hebrew words as well...

67 posted on 07/05/2010 2:54:18 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
Perhaps you could tell us the source of your Hebrew words as well...

The Hebrew text of B'reshit. When one speaks Hebrew, one does not need the English translation to read it. You said that the phrase was "literal" correlated to your doctrinal perspective. That statement as not true. You are welcome to your tradition, but don't accuse others of bblasphemy based on your lack of knowledge of the original Hebrew.
76 posted on 07/05/2010 4:23:14 PM PDT by Tzfat
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