How did Jacob see *GOD* Face to Face? Genesis 32:30

Vanity | July 5th, 2010 | TaraP

[TaraP]

Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

GENESIS 32:28-31

And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast revailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said: Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?

And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel (Pineal): for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. And as he passed over Peniel (Pineal) the sun rose upon him, and halted upon his thigh."

Was Jacob seeing GOD through his *Pineal Gland*

The Pineal Gland is about the size of a pea, and is in the center of the brain in a tiny cave, behind and above the pituitary gland, which lies a little behind the root of the nose. It is located directly behind the eyes, attached to the third ventricle.

[Jack Hydrazine]

Can the infinite one be finite and vice versa?

[Quix]

Lots of things are conceivable.

The pineal etc. is interesting as is the research related thereto.

So much of it is soaked in New Agey junk I pay little attention to it.

In terms of Jacob, I believe that God visited him in some detectable 3D form. Some think it was an OT manifestation of Jesus. I suspect we’ll find out in eternity.

[circlecity]

Don’t know what you are getting at. Certainly the infinite can give the finite one certain glimpses of various characteristics of himself and make his desires known. This is revelation.

[TaraP]

Also if you read the many encounters people have with a NDE and the *Spiritual World* they never say they were experiencing a *Dream like State* it is like they are released maybe through a *Portal* I don’t exactly know but the Brain and Soul are tied together, and one is released upon physical death (Soul) to what prevents us in reaching when our Brain is functioning in our physical life.

[Jack Hydrazine]

“Has any god ever tried to take for himself one nation out of another nation, by testings, by miraculous signs and wonders, by war, by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, or by great and awesome deeds, like all the things the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before your very eyes?”
-Devarim (Deuteronomy) 4:33-35

That giant arm and hand of God literally came down from low earth orbit and parted the Red Sea and squashed the Egyptian army with his only His thumb. He’s like Godzilla but better!

Any anthropomorphisms of God are really the physical side of Him showing the world how He can shake rattle and roll.

[surroundedinCT]

Watching a documentary on the History channel about Jacob right now, actually. Text in the Bible says he met a man. Not an angel, not a spirit, but a man. This is the same man that Jacob wrestled, and then named him Israel.

That man was God.

Seems to me Israel met God face to face.

[Salman]

It’s a made up story slightly at odds with the other made up stories.

[Greenbow]

“When should we stop learning about G-D? does he not want us to test all things? seek his wisdom? his knowledge?”

When we read scripture, we know everything that God wants us to know about Him. We must seek nothing else.

[Jack Hydrazine]

So the infinite can be finite and vice versa?

[norge]

"God is spirit.."

I just wonder what the following means: "And God said, 'Let us make [a] man in our image [likeness] [who looks like us]'."

[fish hawk]

One possibility could be that we are made as a trinity: Body, Spirit, and Soul.

[norge]

Could be anything you want to read into it.

[rawcatslyentist]

>"That giant arm and hand of God literally came down from low earth orbit and parted the Red Sea and squashed the Egyptian army with his only His thumb. He’s like Godzilla but better!"

And yet a few months later they were bowing to a gold calf.

We know not what we do most of the time.

[fish hawk]

Of the Trinity, which one of them does man look like? Isn't it so that Jesus was man, but also God, and that he was filled with the Spirit. He was the only one of the three that could be seen in a fleshy form. He did appear to man before he actually came as a man. Those are called a theophany.

[Tzfat]

That literally means that they met FACE TO FACE. Any other attempt to interpret is blasphemy

Ah, no. Please put down the English Bible and rethink what what "literally means" ...really means.

Jacob said, "רָאִיתִי" [rayiti], which can mean, "I see, I behold, I perceive" etc. The word does not always mean to see with the eye.

The phrase "face to face" as it appears in your English Bible does NOT say that in Hebrew. It is NOT a mechanical translation as you imply. It is "פָּנִים אֶל־פָּנִים" [panyim-el panyim] which literally means: "sides to sides." The word "face" is not found in the Hebrew. Also, the word "panyim" here is is PLURAL, eg. "sides to sides." Even if it meant "face" it would be "faces to faces."

Lastly, the word "אֱ-הִים" [ekohim] often means "G0d" but is also used for angels.

Although many will agree that the translation of "I saw G0d face to face" is acceptible - it is NOT literal as you imply.

[fish hawk]

True in a sense but do you think that God established the Bible for us to “read into it what we will” or that He actually had a message there for us to find. I know that “man” wrote the words down in the Bible but those words were “ God Breathed” and every dot and tittle has a meaning.

[TaraP]

I don’t think reading the Book of Revelation can be read and understood unles,s you are finding the deep meaning of scripture which no one can say they figured all out.

[TaraP]

Thank you for your post! made the most sense!

[Tzfat]

But that's what a literal translation really says. The Hebrew word translated as face, "lipnay" literally means "in front of".

You are wrong. "lifnay" - you are kidding, right? You are confusing time with physical space. There is no such word in the Hebrew text of Genesis 32:31 (the Mesorah has the phrase a verse later than the English). The word is not "in front of" - the phrase is "פָּנִים אֶל־פָּנִים" [panyim el-panyim] which literally means "sides to sides" - not "in front of" and not "face to face." Those are translator's adjustments to English - but not found in the Hebrew.

[count-your-change]

The kingdom of God was “within” those Pharisees? Really?