Posted on 07/05/2010 10:02:12 AM PDT by chatter4
Great video by an independent theist, who has researched Christianity for many years. From the video desciption: "Christians insist that Jesus was nailed to a cross and that after his resurrection, that he showed his disciples the wounds on his hands and his feet. There is not one verse in the Bible that says Jesus was nailed to a cross or that says he showed his wounded hands and feet to anyone. The Bible does say that he was hung on a tree or from a timber.
These four verses claim that the two thieves received the same punishment that Jesus did. They all say the thieves were crucified.
Matthew 27:38 "Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left." Mark 15:27 "And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left." Luke 23:33 "And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left." John 19:18 "Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst." However, this verse says they were hung, so clearly, to be crucified means to be hung. Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us."
This is not the same word which was used to describe Judas being hung. That word clearly meant to be choked or strangled, but, crucifixtion certainly must mean to be suspended from something, and the method used to suspend one from a timber or a tree may have varied."
>> Probably a J.W.
J.W. = Jehovah’s Witness?
In ancient times the wrist (and a portion of the forearm, IIRC) was considered the “hand.”
I think it has to do with if you spread your fingers out the generally circular outline that would be made by a circle with the thumb and pinky being endpoints of the chord bisecting the center would also include/circumscribe the wrist.
chatter4: Thomas was looking for a way to identify Jesus and strike his side to see if he was really there. Only an insane person would want to go poking into open wounds.
John 20:27, chatter4 version:
Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and punch me right in the kidneys; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Or it could have been Thomas using hyperbole, saying that to believe such extreme claims he needed to see extreme proof.
It is a mistake to think that the people of ancient times did not have a grasp on humor, sarcasm, allegories, analogies, AND even hyperbole.
Again you are assuming ancient writers could not or did not use analogies and allegories.
This is Paul saying “When Jesus was nailed to His cross, our condemnation under that law was also nailed there.”
Galatians 3:13 - "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.""
Ephesians 2:15 - "...by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,..."
Proverbs 25:2 - "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
I can’t believe you think you even have a demonstrable thesis with this.
Yep
“Uummmmm. What does this person think exactly how crucifixion was carried out?”
Did you not read the article? If Jesus was nailed, why were the thieves hung? The Bible says they were all crucified, but then it says the thieves were hung.
You are using a faulty translation. No where in the Greek text does it say Jesus was nailed to a cross.
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
1Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree,
“crucifixion” does not necessarily mean nails, but I think the biblical record is quite explicit that Christ was nailed to the cross.”
If you would take the time to re-read the article and then read your Bible, you will find that you are in error. No where does the Boble say Jesus was nailed to anything.
“John Chapter 20:24-31”
Nice try, but, no where does the Bible say that Jesus showed anyone his wounds.
Wow. I just took a stroll through the 128 videos you've done on YouTube. Looks like I wasn't that far off the mark.
“What makes you think He was resurrected with open wounds? I’m confident the same Almighty who breathed life back into my Savior also had the power to heal up the wounds so he wouldn’t be all gross and scare folks away. Do you think He was walking around with his clothing bloodstained from a still-bleeding wound in his side? Of course not. He had scars, yes, but no open wounds.”
I explained in an ealier post that there were no wounds mentioned in the passage you are quoting. The Greek word for “Thrust” is “Ballo”, and it means to strike with force. Again what sane person would want to forcefully strike their master’s wound or scar?
I explained in an ealier post that there were no wounds mentioned in the passage you are quoting. The Greek word for “Thrust” is “Ballo”, and it means to strike with force. Again what sane person would want to forcefully strike their master’s wound or scar?
“Again you are assuming ancient writers could not or did not use analogies and allegories.”
If I say the Gospels are allegoies, I will be labeled a liar. How is it that those that claim Jesus was nailed to a cross are not treated in the same manner?
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
1Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree,
“You are using a faulty translation. No where in the Greek text does it say Jesus was nailed to a cross.
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:”
And how many different ways are there to hang a picture on a wall? You can glue it, tack it, mail it, tape it: simply saying, “I hung the picture” doesn’t say how it was hung.
And yet if someone else comes along and says, “Look at the nail prints in that picture” then all doubt should be removed as to how the picture was hung.
Seriously, this is worth wasting time over???
...now you’re just being pedantic to the point of being asinine.
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