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To: wmfights
Is it possible that instead of a generation since the resettlement of Israel that Jesus is telling us the generation that sees the beginning of the Tribulation will not pass away.

From Why the Rebirth of Israel is a Sign of the End

The fig tree is one of the last trees to bud in the spring, so when it begins to get leaves people know that summer is right around the corner. There’ll be no more false starts, no more cold snaps. Summer is now certain and soon. Jesus used this analogy to tell people who’ll be on Earth at the time that when they see the things he described beginning in Matt. 24:15, they’ll know that His coming is really near.

snip

First of all, you don’t need the Lesson of the Fig Tree to place Israel in Matt. 24. If you read the passage carefully, you’ll see that Jesus gave three crystal clear signs that there would be a generation of Old Covenant believing Jews in Israel before the Great Tribulation begins, and they are the ones He was addressing.

The first clue is the Abomination of Desolation, something that hasn’t happened since Jesus gave the warning. It will be seen standing in the Holy Place. (Matt.24:15) That’s the Jewish Temple, a building that can only be present when Israel occupies the Promised Land.

The second clue is that the people he’s telling to flee are in Judea, the name by which the Biblical land of Israel was known during the time of the Lord’s visitation. (Matt. 24:16)

And the third clue is for them to pray their flight won’t take place on a Sabbath. Matt. 24:20) Only observant Jews would be worried about this because they can only walk 1000 paces on the Sabbath, not nearly far enough to even get out of town, let alone into the mountains.

Some people ask how Israel’s re-birth could be the sign that starts the clock running on the end times when there’s no mention of it in Matt. 24. It’s true, in the Olivet Discourse the Lord never came right out and said Israel would cease to exist and then be re-born 2,000 years later. But there are clear prophecies of just such a thing in the Old Testament. For example Moses warned the people at least twice of the terrible things that would happen if they rejected the Lord. In Deut. 4:25-27 he said their disobedience would cause the Lord to scatter them among the nations. Then in Deut 4:30 He said that in the latter days during a time of tribulation they would return to the Lord and obey Him again.

And starting in Deut. 28:15 Moses listed the disasters that would come upon them, culminating in verses 63 and 64 when he said they would be up rooted from the land and scattered among the nations, from one end of the Earth to the other. And once again, he said, even if they had been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, the Lord would bring them back (Deut. 30:4), and if they agreed to obey His covenant again He would make them prosperous, and then He would circumcise their hearts (see Romans 2:28-29), put their enemies to flight, and delight in them again. Deut 30:1-10 is a clear summary of End Times events. They’ll be brought back into the land, their enemies will be cursed and their covenant will be restored (Ezekiel 38-39), their hearts will be circumcised (Zechariah 12:10), and their prosperity will be restored (Isaiah 65:17-25). This sequence of events is coming to pass today, just as Moses said it would.

snip

There are other places where the Bible promises that the nation Israel will exist in its Biblical lands at the End of the Age as well, such as Ezekiel 36-37.

snip

Earlier, Isaiah had prophesied that there would be a second return, and his contemporary Amos said that after that one they would never be uprooted again. So that’s the one we’re looking for.

In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea. (Isaiah 11:11)

I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the LORD your God. (Amos 9:14-15)

According to history the second fulfillment officially began in 1948. Why did the Lord finally do this? What had they done to deserve it?

"This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.” (Ezekiel 36:22-23)

So it’s clear that the End Times began when Israel became a nation again in 1948. The testimony of Moses, Isaiah, Amos, Ezekiel and others all confirm this. But how long will they last? Remember, the Disciples had asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your coming and of the End of the Age? (Matt. 24:3). Giving us the timing of their beginning doesn’t fully answer the question. We have to know the time of their end as well. The Lord was clear that the sign of the 2nd Coming would appear after the end of the Great Tribulation. (Matt. 24:30). Then He said,

“This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matt. 24:34).

There are three possible views of the phrase “this generation”. Some believe it refers to the generation alive when Jesus spoke. Their contention is that the Olivet Discourse prophecies were all fulfilled by 70 AD. I can not find any way to make this view conform to a literal interpretation of Scripture. At best it’s only a partial fulfillment, which means it confirms the fact that there will be a complete fulfillment in the End Times. Others use a secondary meaning for the Greek word translated generation and say it refers to the Jewish race. To them the verse says the Jewish people will not disappear from the Earth until all the End Times prophecies are fulfilled. While linguistically possible this interpretation isn’t really a legitimate sign. It’s not the existence of the Jewish race that’s important, it’s the existence of the nation Israel. Without Israel, End Times prophecies simply cannot be fulfilled. That leaves the third alternative, that Jesus was speaking of the generation alive at the End of the Age. But even this is not a pertinent sign unless by the phrase “all these things” Jesus was speaking of everything that followed the re-birth of the nation.

Think about this for a moment. When Jesus said “This generation will certainly not pass away” he was referring to the life time of one generation of people, saying in effect that all the End Times signs would be fulfilled within the lifetime of the people being born when they began. According to Psalm 90:10 and Isaiah 23:15 this means a 70 year period of time. From a timing standpoint the signs Jesus listed in Matt. 24 can be split into two groups, neither of which fit that criteria. There are the general signs of Matt. 24:4-14 that are either characteristic of the entire age or of indeterminate duration (like birth pangs). And there are the specific signs of Matt. 24:15-31 that all happen with in 3.5 years. Why would He say all these things would happen within a lifetime when Daniel was already on record giving their duration as 3.5 years (Daniel 12:7)? It doesn’t make sense.

There’s only one End Times sign that meets the criteria and that’s the one that began the End Times, the re-birth of the Nation. (The reunification of Jerusalem in 1967 can’t be considered for 2 reasons. First, according to Zechariah 14:2 it will be divided again, but more importantly the Lord’s prophecy about Jerusalem being trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (Luke 21:24) won’t fully come to pass until the 2nd Coming.)

Israel officially became a nation again in 1948. If that event began a 70 year countdown to the 2nd Coming and the End of the Age, then the increasing number of predictions in the secular world of coming social and economic upheaval, electromagnetic storms and other natural disasters, combined with wars in various places should not come as any surprise to us.

So, even if Jesus was speaking to the Jews, the generation he was talking about would have to end after the Biblical definition of a generation, 70 years, or, according to the Hebrew calendar, 2017.

26 posted on 07/05/2010 9:20:11 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; wmfights; Lee N. Field

“The fig tree is one of the last trees to bud in the spring, so when it begins to get leaves people know that summer is right around the corner. There’ll be no more false starts, no more cold snaps. Summer is now certain and soon. Jesus used this analogy to tell people who’ll be on Earth at the time that when they see the things he described beginning in Matt. 24:15, they’ll know that His coming is really near.”

I asked you in a previous thread what you make of the equivalent passage in Luke 21 where He refers to “the fig tree AND ALL THE TREES” and you didn’t reply. Please do so now.


31 posted on 07/05/2010 11:57:56 AM PDT by Diapason
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
...the generation he was talking about would have to end after the Biblical definition of a generation, 70 years, or, according to the Hebrew calendar, 2017.

Where I think we might be misinterpreting Matt24 is thinking that it is a human generation. In v.33 Jesus says when you see all these things, know that it is near. IOW, the people that are alive at the time of the tribulation, not the first generation in a regathered Israel.

I completely agree that Jesus is addressing this to the Jews of Israel and not the Gentiles that become Christians. I think he is telling us that Christians aren't present during this in v.31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

54 posted on 07/05/2010 4:41:38 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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