Posted on 07/05/2010 6:39:06 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
Pretty close, though. Whats one year out of 2000 plus years.
Is it possible that instead of a generation since the resettlement of Israel that Jesus is telling us the generation that sees the beginning of the Tribulation will not pass away.
Matt.24:34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
As I'm reading Matt. 24 it is directed specifically to Jews and those that survive these events will be the people living on earth, repopulating it during the millennial reign. IOW, this generation will be the last, it will not pass away.
ping
I'm going to bookmark the original article and send it to my kids. Then I'll wait and see if I get the standard, "oh Dad, you old coot!"
The Lord has said “No Man knows” the time of his coming and also that He will come “in an hour you think not.” If someone says “He comes at 3PM on September 7th, 2017” you might think “well that CAN’T be the time because NO MAN KNOWS! However 3PM on September 7th, 2017 is now THE TIME YOU THINK NOT! Blows your mind, don’t it?!
From Why the Rebirth of Israel is a Sign of the End
The fig tree is one of the last trees to bud in the spring, so when it begins to get leaves people know that summer is right around the corner. There’ll be no more false starts, no more cold snaps. Summer is now certain and soon. Jesus used this analogy to tell people who’ll be on Earth at the time that when they see the things he described beginning in Matt. 24:15, they’ll know that His coming is really near.
snip
First of all, you don’t need the Lesson of the Fig Tree to place Israel in Matt. 24. If you read the passage carefully, you’ll see that Jesus gave three crystal clear signs that there would be a generation of Old Covenant believing Jews in Israel before the Great Tribulation begins, and they are the ones He was addressing.
The first clue is the Abomination of Desolation, something that hasn’t happened since Jesus gave the warning. It will be seen standing in the Holy Place. (Matt.24:15) That’s the Jewish Temple, a building that can only be present when Israel occupies the Promised Land.
The second clue is that the people he’s telling to flee are in Judea, the name by which the Biblical land of Israel was known during the time of the Lord’s visitation. (Matt. 24:16)
And the third clue is for them to pray their flight won’t take place on a Sabbath. Matt. 24:20) Only observant Jews would be worried about this because they can only walk 1000 paces on the Sabbath, not nearly far enough to even get out of town, let alone into the mountains.
Some people ask how Israel’s re-birth could be the sign that starts the clock running on the end times when there’s no mention of it in Matt. 24. It’s true, in the Olivet Discourse the Lord never came right out and said Israel would cease to exist and then be re-born 2,000 years later. But there are clear prophecies of just such a thing in the Old Testament. For example Moses warned the people at least twice of the terrible things that would happen if they rejected the Lord. In Deut. 4:25-27 he said their disobedience would cause the Lord to scatter them among the nations. Then in Deut 4:30 He said that in the latter days during a time of tribulation they would return to the Lord and obey Him again.
And starting in Deut. 28:15 Moses listed the disasters that would come upon them, culminating in verses 63 and 64 when he said they would be up rooted from the land and scattered among the nations, from one end of the Earth to the other. And once again, he said, even if they had been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, the Lord would bring them back (Deut. 30:4), and if they agreed to obey His covenant again He would make them prosperous, and then He would circumcise their hearts (see Romans 2:28-29), put their enemies to flight, and delight in them again. Deut 30:1-10 is a clear summary of End Times events. They’ll be brought back into the land, their enemies will be cursed and their covenant will be restored (Ezekiel 38-39), their hearts will be circumcised (Zechariah 12:10), and their prosperity will be restored (Isaiah 65:17-25). This sequence of events is coming to pass today, just as Moses said it would.
snip
There are other places where the Bible promises that the nation Israel will exist in its Biblical lands at the End of the Age as well, such as Ezekiel 36-37.
snip
Earlier, Isaiah had prophesied that there would be a second return, and his contemporary Amos said that after that one they would never be uprooted again. So that’s the one we’re looking for.
In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea. (Isaiah 11:11)
I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the LORD your God. (Amos 9:14-15)
According to history the second fulfillment officially began in 1948. Why did the Lord finally do this? What had they done to deserve it?
"This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.” (Ezekiel 36:22-23)
So it’s clear that the End Times began when Israel became a nation again in 1948. The testimony of Moses, Isaiah, Amos, Ezekiel and others all confirm this. But how long will they last? Remember, the Disciples had asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your coming and of the End of the Age? (Matt. 24:3). Giving us the timing of their beginning doesn’t fully answer the question. We have to know the time of their end as well. The Lord was clear that the sign of the 2nd Coming would appear after the end of the Great Tribulation. (Matt. 24:30). Then He said,
“This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matt. 24:34).
There are three possible views of the phrase “this generation”. Some believe it refers to the generation alive when Jesus spoke. Their contention is that the Olivet Discourse prophecies were all fulfilled by 70 AD. I can not find any way to make this view conform to a literal interpretation of Scripture. At best it’s only a partial fulfillment, which means it confirms the fact that there will be a complete fulfillment in the End Times. Others use a secondary meaning for the Greek word translated generation and say it refers to the Jewish race. To them the verse says the Jewish people will not disappear from the Earth until all the End Times prophecies are fulfilled. While linguistically possible this interpretation isn’t really a legitimate sign. It’s not the existence of the Jewish race that’s important, it’s the existence of the nation Israel. Without Israel, End Times prophecies simply cannot be fulfilled. That leaves the third alternative, that Jesus was speaking of the generation alive at the End of the Age. But even this is not a pertinent sign unless by the phrase “all these things” Jesus was speaking of everything that followed the re-birth of the nation.
Think about this for a moment. When Jesus said “This generation will certainly not pass away” he was referring to the life time of one generation of people, saying in effect that all the End Times signs would be fulfilled within the lifetime of the people being born when they began. According to Psalm 90:10 and Isaiah 23:15 this means a 70 year period of time. From a timing standpoint the signs Jesus listed in Matt. 24 can be split into two groups, neither of which fit that criteria. There are the general signs of Matt. 24:4-14 that are either characteristic of the entire age or of indeterminate duration (like birth pangs). And there are the specific signs of Matt. 24:15-31 that all happen with in 3.5 years. Why would He say all these things would happen within a lifetime when Daniel was already on record giving their duration as 3.5 years (Daniel 12:7)? It doesn’t make sense.
There’s only one End Times sign that meets the criteria and that’s the one that began the End Times, the re-birth of the Nation. (The reunification of Jerusalem in 1967 can’t be considered for 2 reasons. First, according to Zechariah 14:2 it will be divided again, but more importantly the Lord’s prophecy about Jerusalem being trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (Luke 21:24) won’t fully come to pass until the 2nd Coming.)
Israel officially became a nation again in 1948. If that event began a 70 year countdown to the 2nd Coming and the End of the Age, then the increasing number of predictions in the secular world of coming social and economic upheaval, electromagnetic storms and other natural disasters, combined with wars in various places should not come as any surprise to us.
So, even if Jesus was speaking to the Jews, the generation he was talking about would have to end after the Biblical definition of a generation, 70 years, or, according to the Hebrew calendar, 2017.
That’s wild but very true!
“So, a generation is seventy years, now, in the current version of the dispensational scenario? I assume you’re using the classic “count from 1948”, or has that changed too?”
Lee, do you remember “88 reasons why the rapture would happen in 88”? Then the generation was considered to be DEFINITELY 40 years! The same idea was subscribed to by Hal Lindsay - he who “updated” wives as often as he “updated” the date of the Second Coming.
And, Giovanna, before you mention “scoffers” in the Last Days, I do believe Jesus is coming again. He said so. What I do not subscribe to is reading the news into the Bible - that’s eisegesis.
That's your prerogative. I'll choose to obey Jesus Christ:
54 He also said to the multitudes, "When you see a cloud rising in the west, you say at once, `A shower is coming'; and so it happens. 55 And when you see the south wind blowing, you say, `There will be scorching heat'; and it happens. 56 You hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of earth and sky; but why do you not know how to interpret the present time? (Luke 12:54, 56)
Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. (Mark 13:35-37)
“The fig tree is one of the last trees to bud in the spring, so when it begins to get leaves people know that summer is right around the corner. There’ll be no more false starts, no more cold snaps. Summer is now certain and soon. Jesus used this analogy to tell people who’ll be on Earth at the time that when they see the things he described beginning in Matt. 24:15, they’ll know that His coming is really near.”
I asked you in a previous thread what you make of the equivalent passage in Luke 21 where He refers to “the fig tree AND ALL THE TREES” and you didn’t reply. Please do so now.
You'll need to re-post the the original post.
“54 He also said to the multitudes, “When you see a cloud rising in the west, you say at once, `A shower is coming’; and so it happens. 55 And when you see the south wind blowing, you say, `There will be scorching heat’; and it happens. 56 You hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of earth and sky; but why do you not know how to interpret the present time? (Luke 12:54, 56)”
And also from Luke 12 verse 40 “You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”
The Christian life is a life lived in constant readiness for His return.
“Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. (Mark 13:35-37)”
Same reply as above.
You seem to assume that because we don’t subscibe to your view of eschatology that we we believe He isn’t coming again. Not so!
“I don’t remember that post at all.
You’ll need to re-post the the original post.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2538339/posts
Why the rebirth of Israel is a sign of the end.
Reply 52 (and 53 - a bit of an OOPS!)
Anyways, South African time it’s about bedtime (9:20pm) and I have to be at work at 7:30am, so will check again tomorrow, probably late afternoon SA time - if this thread is still alive, AND if HE hasn’t yet returned!
But then don't come on my posts and try to do the same thing you're accusing me of. If you believe you are being unfairly "labeled" or otherwise unfairly treated, then I don't want to read any more disparaging remarks about "futurists" or "dispensationalists" or any of the garbage I've been treated to for years.
And it's not just a matter of not "(subsrcibing) to (my) view of eschatology". I've had outright denials of prophetic Scripture thrown at me for years. Now that the activity of fulfilled prophecy is picking up, even the most diehard deniers are having a tough time posting their denials without looking like idiots.
So while nobody knows the exact time Jesus will return, He did give us signs to look for and commanded us to look for those signs and recognize them as portents of His soon return. And that's what I intend to keep doing.
No big deal.
“2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”
“There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray [or “deceive” A.V.] if possible, even the elect” (Matt. 24: 24).
The onsloughts have only just begun, like the pharonic priests of Moses day who could do some false wonders, the modern day false prophets will soon start peddling their magical tricks. It will be very difficult to tell the real from the fake apart. I do believe that a rapture is coming, just have questons regarding the timing; Christ himself says he comes “like a thief at a time no man is expecting”. So he could come in the next 5 minutes or at the time when the slain prophets are taken up and then the church goes with them. The world wide church may be under intense persecution and “multitudes killed” as the Beast, false prophet, false image worship system is being set up and then the 7 year count down begins when the AC makes a false peace treaty with Israel. When the rapture occurs in all that is still a mystery. The Beast system may be in operation for a bit...perhaps just before the events of Ezekiel 38 and or Psalms 83, but the real count down to the end begins when the False peace treaty is signed.
So I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, just saying yippee if Christ does take his church before all that and God in his mercy spares multitudes from hell during the times of the tribulation even though they are killed for not taking the “mark”. On the other hand don’t lose heart if Christians are around as the “first bitter fruits” of the Beast system begin to be made manifest! Christ is coming back, sooner than one would think, and perhaps when most would least suspect that he would. Even so...”Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord”!
That bitter fruit may be here very soon.
A lot of secular economists are saying that we are going into a depression. Now students of prophecy know that there has to be a worldwide economic collapse to enable the Antichrist to come on the scene with his mark and we see that happening, but there is no guarantee that Christians won't be here for some of the collapse.
We're told that we won't be here for the Tribulation. Any unpleasantness that may occur before that period of time carries with it no assurance from God that Christians won't have to go through some of it.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
That everlasting life could start today, next week, next year, etc. I truly do not see the value of trying to set a date for Christ's return(Sept. 9-10 2018 or 2017) or even self identify ourselves as the last generation. There will be millions of people that will die between now and September 2017 that even if your date would be correct this has no value to them if they die in their sins because they are waiting to “get right with God” in August 2017.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement
We are all going to die, some people will die today, tomorrow, etc.
To give a little back ground...I became a Christian in 1983 when God showed me that I was a very sinful person but that He still loved me and had made a way for me to repent and not perish. I bring up the year because as a young believer I was eager to learn all that I could about Jesus and this new relationship I had entered into...I was at this time exposed to the teaching that Israel had become a nation in 1948 and that a “generation” was 36 years so...Jesus was coming back in 1984...I knew other teens (the ones raised in the church) wanted to experience parts of life that they had not yet experienced (sex, drinking, etc) so some of them did these in 1983 so they could have “the experience” before Jesus came back in 1984 (they then “repented” before 1984 so they would be safe). When Jesus did not return the teaching changed to say that the calculations were from the wrong calendar and He would return in 1985...that did not happen so the teaching changed again to say that a generation was actually 40 years so it moved the date out until 1988...(88 reasons Christ will return in 1988)...by the time 1988 had arrived most of the teens had walked away from the faith and would no longer listen to parents, pastors, Sunday school teachers, etc that had taught them what were shown to be false dates.
I believe that the focus of the Scriptures is that we should live for Christ and be ready...we do not know when the end of the world will be...and our individual end may be before that (we will die).
1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness
God bless
Can a sheep wear a wolf’s cloak...or does the phrase..”the outer man perishes while the inner man is renewed day by day” better describe my question?
Which has a better chance of salvation...the out in the open self honest wolf or the crafty wolf in sheep”s clothing who hides his true intentions?
When are sheep and wolves most alike? Is it perhaps when they are true to themselves before God and men? A true sheep of God is one that has confessed his/her rapacious wolfishness and repented before God and men!
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