Posted on 06/29/2010 8:28:07 AM PDT by Colofornian
Quite reasonably, the current “Introduction” to the Book of Mormon begins, “The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible.”...
Yet...we are likely to point out some significant differences as well...
...The Bible is more of a library than a single book, and there are tremendous differences in genre...
At first glance, the contents of the Book of Mormon appear to be similarly diverse...On closer inspection... the Book of Mormon turns to be entirely narrative. The whole book takes the form of a story told by narrators...but we know who is responsible for every word in the Book of Mormon. It’s either Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, or Moroni (plus a few minor authors...). This means that the Book of Mormon, as a whole, is a much more integrated and deliberately constructed volume than the Bible.
...the Book of Mormon operates by very different literary principles than the Bible. Consider the characteristics of Old Testament narrators as described by Shimon Bar-Efrat, formerly of Hebrew University at Jerusalem:
“The narrator in most biblical narratives appears to be omniscient”
“Biblical narrators do not usually mention themselves”
“Biblical narrators [generally] make no reference to their activity in writing the narratives”
“The narrators do not...address their audience directly”
“Outside the books of Kings there are very few instances in which the narrator passes judgment”
How many of these statements are true of the Book of Mormon? None of them.
Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, and Moroni are...often...participants in the stories...They interrupt their narratives regularly to tell us about their lives, their testimonies, and their desires. They worry about their “weakness in writing” (Eth. 12:23, 40; cf. 2 Ne. 33:1, 4). And they do not hesitate to address readers directly to explain their intentions,...editorial techniques,...emotional responses to...events...
(Excerpt) Read more at ldsmag.com ...
And for good reason. If they were to reveal those "oddball beliefs" while proseletyzing, they wouldn't be as successful as they are in converting those they do to mormonism. It is for this very reason that many post here about the "oddball beliefs" of mormons. To hopefully prevent more folks from getting misled or sucked into a faith that is not Biblical.
Asking basic questions of mormons on FR is what led a few of us out of mormonism as we began to question what it was exactly that we "believed". There is much to learn and much to discuss, yet it is usually a one-sided affair as almost to a man, not one mormon will debate the points. The comments almost always are directed at the poster, not the content or comment. A common tactic of Alinskyite, radical liberals in attacking the messenger, not the message. This has already been done in within the first 10 posts.
One is then left wondering, why? For me, it's because the doctrine, tenets and foundation of mormonism are incompatible with basic Christianity and are indefensible when compared to the Word of Christ and the Bible.
It sounded so much like Christianity when first approached about it and the good people that took care of my wife while I was deployed further convinced me that, outwardly, there was nothing remotely "wrong" with mormonism. I found that "revelation" in the D&C states that mormon males can become gods, to eventually rule over their own planet and to basically begin the story of the Bible anew by their own hand as a god. That passage alone led me to inactivity, yet not renounce the faith that I had converted to out of biblical ignorance.
Through reading the numerous threads about mormonism, I found that I didn't know half as much as I thought I did about the faith and it steeled my resolve enough to admit as much here on FR.
It was by being "hit over the head" that I finally woke up to what mormonism was really about. Sometimes, people just won't listen to reasonable discussion or they don't know where to turn for factual information. Sometimes, it takes getting "hit over the head" for folks to wake up.
“We don’t go by feelings but it’s nice to have a confirmation.”
Feelings are the foundation and entire basis of mormonism.
You flatter yourself.
You don’t address the content, only make disparaging remarks about the posters. How is that a “defendable position”?
But nevertheless, it’s very telling...I’ve seen that exact tactic used by radical liberals as well. A practice taught by Saul Alinsky and used to a great extent on these types of threads.
One of your BoM boys lopped off the head of one of the antagonists in the BoM while he was passed out drunk.
Very heroic.
Can you expand on that story?
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 4
Nephi slays Laban at the Lord’s command and then secures the plates of brass by stratagem—Zoram chooses to join Lehi’s family in the wilderness. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
1 And it came to pass that I spake unto my brethren, saying: Let us go up again unto Jerusalem, and let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; for behold he is mightier than all the earth, then why not bmightier than Laban and his fifty, yea, or even than his tens of thousands?
2 Therefore let us go up; let us be astrong like unto Moses; for he truly spake unto the waters of the Red bSea and they divided hither and thither, and our fathers came through, out of captivity, on dry ground, and the armies of Pharaoh did follow and were drowned in the waters of the Red Sea.
3 Now behold ye know that this is true; and ye also know that an angel hath spoken unto you; wherefore can ye doubt? Let us go up; the Lord is able to deliver us, even as our fathers, and to destroy Laban, even as the Egyptians.
4 Now when I had spoken these words, they were yet wroth, and did still continue to murmur; nevertheless they did follow me up until we came without the walls of Jerusalem.
5 And it was by night; and I caused that they should hide themselves without the walls. And after they had hid themselves, I, Nephi, crept into the city and went forth towards the house of Laban.
6 And I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do.
7 Nevertheless I went forth, and as I came near unto the house of Laban I beheld a man, and he had fallen to the earth before me, for he was drunken with wine.
8 And when I came to him I found that it was Laban.
9 And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel.
10 And it came to pass that I was constrained by the Spirit that I should kill Laban; but I said in my heart: Never at any time have I shed the blood of man. And I shrunk and would that I might not slay him.
11 And the Spirit said unto me again: Behold the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands. Yea, and I also knew that he had sought to take away mine own life; yea, and he would not hearken unto the commandments of the Lord; and he also had taken away our property.
12 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands;
13 Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief.
14 And now, when I, Nephi, had heard these words, I remembered the words of the Lord which he spake unto me in the wilderness, saying that: Inasmuch as thy seed shall keep my commandments, they shall prosper in the land of promise.
15 Yea, and I also thought that they could not keep the commandments of the Lord according to the law of Moses, save they should have the law.
16 And I also knew that the law was engraven upon the plates of brass.
17 And again, I knew that the Lord had delivered Laban into my hands for this cause—that I might obtain the records according to his commandments.
18 Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword.
etc., etc.
Steel was known in antiquity, and may have been produced by managing bloomeries — iron-smelting facilities — so that the bloom contained carbon.
The earliest known production of steel is a piece of ironware excavated from an archaeological site in Anatolia (Kaman-Kalehoyuk ){modern day Turkey} and is about 4,000 years old. Other ancient steel comes from East Africa, dating back to 1400 BC.
In the 4th century BC steel weapons like the Falcata were produced in the Iberian Peninsula, while Noric steel was used by the Roman military.
The Chinese of the Warring States (403–221 BC) had quench-hardened steel, while Chinese of the Han Dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD) created steel by melting together wrought iron with cast iron, gaining an ultimate product of a carbon-intermediate steel by the 1st century AD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
Although there is much debate about the BoM references to steel. I suppose it all depends on how one interprets the use of the word “steel”. Wiki here describes it more like iron vs. steel.
I often wonder how they got people to fall for this...
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They promise Godhood, seriously. If you live Mormonism your best, you can become a God of your own planet and be worshiped yourself.
As far as interpreting "steel" my experience with lds is that whatever they say at the moment is the interpretation.
The Book of Mormon is another Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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BZZZT.
The Book of Mormon is a Testament of ANOTHER Jesus Christ.
You know, the one who KILLED TENS OF THOUSANDS for their ‘wickedness’ in the Americas at the SAME Time He is crying out “Father, forgive them” about the ones who actually CRUCIFIED HIM.
My Lord ain’t no mass murderer, the LDS one is.
Well, if they can find a little bit of “steel” from 4000 plus years ago, you would think that the vast amounts of “steel” left lying about after 100’s of thousands were killed in battle could be found.
And you bring up another good point. Since mormons used to claim, and some still do, that the ancients of meso-america are/were the peoples referenced in the BoM, why weren’t smelts and foundries discovered during the excavations of those areas?
Saundra one must remember androits don’t feel the presence of anything
Ok, would you define this word. I looked it up on google and found no definition.
a·droit (-droit)
adj.
1. Skillful and adept under pressing conditions
“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost”
1 Corinthians 12:3
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Sandy, yet another example of how the LDS do not understand scripture.
People can SAY Jesus is Lord, and it not be true. We are told elsehwere that not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ will inherit the Kingdom.
The Greek in this verse, is epeien, it can mean say, command, or believe.
No one will come to a saving knowledge (a heart belief, not jsut saying it) of Christ except by the power of the Holy Ghost.
This verse is not a ‘litmus test’, in fact it is the opposite. Only the Holy Ghost will move people to faith ALONE in Christ Jesus.
People can and do pay lip service that Jesus is the Christ all the time. Espeically the LDS since they ADD the LDS chruch to Christ.
So, Sandy, who will YOU choose? Jesus or Joseph? Smith or Christ? The Messiah or Monson?
Will you choose Jesus over your precious ‘church’? Because if you are NOT willing to give up Mormonism, temples, prophets, and the BoM, then you do not really accept Jesus as Lord. If Jesus is not Lord OF ALL, then He is not Lord AT ALL.
Have you read the Book of Mormon
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I’ve read it and it is very obviously a fraud.
Excellent. Not only can the LDS not get basic word usage down, they don’t get context of Bible verses either.
Yes, its not the same word.
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