Posted on 06/26/2010 10:46:26 AM PDT by Natural Law
Just think of all the money he could have made selling indulgences to those people..
It seems that you are blaming the Catholic Church for sodomy allegedly committed by Calvin, without any evidence of such.
Good grief.
That just goes to show you the lengths some will go to to tar the Church with any scandal.
Actually, I was not. My question had to do with the un-evidenced accusation of an act committed by an 18 year old young man and, since he was still a Roman Catholic at the time and he had an accomplice, I asked if his clergy was involved somehow. You don't hear the whole story and I wondered why.
Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church is as authoritative a source as any. I assume you probably consulted it before dismissing the facts of history as unlikely myths . . .
Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church is as authoritative a source as any. I assume you probably consulted it before dismissing the facts of history as unlikely myths . . .
As I recall, Bolsec not only claimed that Calvin had been convicted of sodomy, but that part of his punishment consisted of having a fleur-de-lys branded on his forehead.
I can understand perhaps why portraits of the man omit this decoration. I do not understand how it escaped the notice of Guillaume Farel and others in authority in Geneva. "Say, John, what's with that fleur-de-lys on your forehead?" "Well, Bill, that's kind of complicated . . ."
That is an outright lie. You have me mixed up with someone else. The rest of your explanation has nothing to do with me. Your memory is obviously failing you.
Years ago Arminians and Calvinists argued over Billy Graham and at that time you also demanded answers from me that I had already given you. Just like now.
But I NEVER mentioned Billy Graham on my homepage.
Apologize for your arrogant lie.
Oh, that fleur-de-lys.
"It is a thing against nature," he remarks, "that any one should not love his wife, for God has ordained marriage in order that two may be made one person—a result which, certainly, no other alliance can bring about. When Moses says that a man shall leave father and mother and cleave unto his wife, he shows that a man ought to prefer marriage to every other union, as being the holiest of all. It reflects our union with Christ, who infuses his very life unto us; for we are flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bone. This is a great mystery, the dignity of which cannot be expressed in words." - John Calvin
So, were Catholics to blame for the Salem witch trials and subsequent executions?
Keep in mind that we are talking about an event that took place nearly two centuries after the Reformation. It took place in a place that was nearly entirely Calvinist and it is doubtful that the average person in Salem had ever even met a Catholic.
The Orthodox, Anglicans and many European brances of Lutheranism all have valid Apostolic Succession.
You wrote:
“What does that do to claims of Apostolic succession? Chucks it in the Tiber, just like Formosus, that’s what it does.”
You really seem to have no idea of what you’re talking about. Apostolic succession is carried through the bishops - not just one bishop, but by all of them. You apparently believe - MISTAKENLY - that Apostolic Succession rests upon only one diocese when it actually rests upon thousands. The fact that an anti-Catholic doesn’t seem to know this will, of course, not stop an anti-Catholic from posting. That would require a circumspection that may be lacking.
This only goes to show that its the doctrine, not the person. Anyone can say anything about anyone.
But, does their doctrine match the Bible?
Nor I, but I was just curious as to this. It’s not the man, but the doctrine. Does it point to Christ? Is it Biblical? Those are the only questions necessary.
For a self appointed hall pass monitor you sure do ignore the rules when it comes to you. As a reminder it is against Religion Forum rules to accuse others of lying.
You must have pulled that comment from your homepage since it doesn't appear anymore.
As usual your mind reading skills are flawed. It wasn't Siamese cats it was Bernese Mountain Dogs, it wasn't inherit it was urinate on, and it was the earth I removed when digging my pool.......
Based on such biblical misinterpretations, Calvinists often viewed laughter, happiness, and pleasure as suspect and undesirable. Beginning with Calvin himself, whenever empowered Calvinists frequently tried to impose their doleful philosophy on others.
The theocracy Calvin established in sixteenth-century Geneva, Switzerland (not democracy or republic as some have foolishly or disingenuously suggested), prohibited dancing, drinking, gambling, card playing, ribaldry, fashionable clothes, and other amusements. Theaters were closed and attempts were made to drive taverns from the city.
Proclaiming "the chief duty of man is to glorify God," Calvin required religious instruction for all, public fasting, austere living, and evening curfew. According to the Geneva town records, a man was imprisoned for three days for smiling during a baptism.
Examples abound. When the Puritans and Calvinists temporarily gained control in England, they banned entertainments, closed theaters, opposed festivals, and prescribed the death penalty for sex outside of marriage. Lord Macaulay said the Puritans "hated bear-baiting, not because it gave pain to the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the spectators."
Because abused and unhappy people are often mean people, it's probably no coincidence that, just as in Calvin’s Geneva, today's ascetic religious groups usually support intolerant and violent doctrines. Nor should it be surprising that they also follow the Calvinist’s example of trying to enact laws denying others the same freedom, pleasure, and happiness they reject.
It was not that no one had understood the true Gospel of grace during the prior 1200 or so years (since was beginning to be suppressed in Augustine's time)
Who had this knowledge specifically? I am glad for Calvin's work and scholarship, too, but who had this knowledge after the Apostles died or were martyred.
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