Posted on 06/14/2010 3:28:41 PM PDT by Ken4TA
“Know you therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.”
God made a promise to Abraham: “In thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed” (Gen.12:3). Later he repeated the promise, “because you have obeyed my voice” (Gen. 22:18).
What of this promise? Was it fulfilled? Or is it yet to be realized in some material sense? Gross confusion prevails. The tragic result is that Christians look for a fulfillment which will not come, because they look for the wrong kind of promise. People keep getting this original promise to Abraham mixed up with the Law given to Moses and with the land of Canaan in which the Israelites established a nation.
But the promise to Abraham had nothing to do with the law nor with national Israel. Paul explained, “For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of Faith” (Rom. 4:13). Three things are revealed here: 1) That the promise has nothing to do with the law; 2) That it does have to do with inheriting the world, and not a mere fraction of it, and 3) That it is through faith, and not through racial descent.
Jesus said that Abraham “rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad” (John 8:56, cf. 8:44). Obviously Abraham understood that the promise that he was to be the father of many nations and that all families should be blessed through him was a promise concerning Christ and the salvation he would purchase for believers. God was severe in teaching him the lesson, “in Isaac shall thy seed be called” (Gen. 21:12) because Isaac was the son of “promise”, the son born by a miracle of God in response to Abraham’s faith. Thus “it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed” (Rom. 9:8). Paul again explains, “know you therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham” (Gal. 3:7). It is plain that the promise is to Christians, and not to the fleshly descendants, the Ismaelites, and the many tribes and nations that descended from Abraham and rebelled against God. Nor does the promise have anything to do with modern Israel, a nation that is officially and thoroughly anti-christ. Paul declares, “Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He said not, and to seeds, as of many, but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ” (Gal. 3:16). The promise God made to Abraham had to do with Jesus Christ and the redemption He made for believers, so that all who believe on Him are blessed.
“And if you are Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise” (Gal. 3:29). The promise is a spiritual one, as demonstrated in Abraham himself. Scripture says of him: “he looked for the city which has the foundation, whose builder and maker is God” (Heb. 11:10). Of Abraham and the other patriarchs, the Bible says, “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things make it manifest that they are seeking after a country of their own. And if indeed they had been mindful of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better country, that is a heavenly; wherefore God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God; for He has prepared for them a city” (Heb. 11:13–16).
The promise which Abraham has not yet received is that promise that he “should be heir of the world” (Rom. 4:13). This world is to be destroyed, as described by the apostle Peter, revealing that this earth is “stored up for fire, being reserved against the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men” (II Pet. 3:7). Then Peter adds, “But according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness” (II Pet. 3:13).
This is Abraham’s inheritance, the city with foundations laid, not by men’s hands, but by God, a heavenly city, the New Jerusalem. Christ is the “seed” of Abraham, and through Him all Christians are the children and seed of Abraham, and thus joint-heirs of the new creation. Thus the promise, yet to be realized by Abraham and all God’s children, is an eternal home for saints resurrected and made immortal, not the land of Palestine occupied by a certain few in the 20th century.
This has always been the hope of the true Israel, the children of God by faith. The apostle Paul preached the resurrection of the dead everywhere he went. He claimed to glory in only one thing, the gospel of Christ, which is the good news of Christ’s death and resurrection. For preaching this gospel he was persecuted by the Jews and finally imprisoned and sent in chains to Rome, where he declared, “because of the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain” (Acts 28:20). Paul is the inspired apostle who wrote emphatically that there is “one hope” (Eph. 4:4). This hope, held by Abraham and all believers of all time, is the hope of immortality in the new creation, after the present world has passed away.
WHAT THEN OF THE “LAND PROMISES”?
Indeed, there was a promise to Abraham concerning the land where he sojourned. “In that day (not the same day God made the original promise) Jehovah made a covenant with Abraham, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the Euphrates” (Gen 15:18). This promise was completely fulfilled after the Israelites returned from Egypt. The book of Joshua describes the conquest of the land, and declares, “So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he swore to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein…There failed nothing of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass” (Joshua 21:43, 45). Under King David, the kingdom was expanded all the way to the river Euphrates (II Sam. 8:3). This is further verified in I Kings 4:23, 24.
The kingdom also embraced laws, generally known as the Mosaic Law, initiated in the ritual of circumcision. This law, called the Old Covenant, began at Mt. Sinai, and was finished at the cross, some 1400 years later. It included circumcision, the observation of certain days, feasts and ceremonial sacrifices, involving the slaying of animals for atonement of sins. All of this is done away in Christ, for He is the “end of the law.” In His death he became the final and complete sacrifice, paying the penalty for sin once and for all in his own death (Heb. 10:10, 14). Furthermore, the Old Covenant being fulfilled, there is now no racial barrier to the Kingdom of God. Ancestry or genealogy has nothing to do with redemption in Christ. By his death for sin Christ has brought all believers into the commonwealth, into His Kingdom (Eph. 2:12–19). “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. There can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for you are all one man in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s then are you Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise” (Gal. 3:27–29).
The earthly kingdom which was the glory of David and Solomon, and which their fleshly descendants have endeavored to restore to this day, was part of the national covenant made with Moses. They so trampled underfoot the laws of God that He sent their enemies to take them captive into Assyria and Babylon. Prophets foretold a return to Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the temple. All of this was fulfilled. A remnant of all the tribes returned to their homeland, and a great temple was built. But again they refused to walk in the faith exemplified by Abraham. “Jesus said unto them, if you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham” (John 8:39, cf., 40-56).
Instead of believing on Christ, as Abraham and Moses did, even before He appeared in the flesh, they rejected Him. Jesus then said, “The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Matt. 21:43). Peter identifies the church as this nation: “you are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light” (I Pet. 2:9)
To the fleshly nation of Israel, Jesus said, “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate” (Matt. 24:1–2), and in a few years his prophecy was fulfilled to the letter when the Roman armies demolished Jerusalem in 70 AD.
As Christians our hope is not hinged on a piece of temporal land nor a fickle and rebellious ethnic group. Our hope is not in this earth, which is to perish, nor in worldly governments — no, not in our own government nor some super government. Our hope is in the coming of Christ to judge the world, to deliver Christians out of it, to change our bodies to glorious ones like His own and plant us in the “new heavens and new earth wherein dwells righteousness.”
“Know you therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.”
Why do you jump from 8:3 to 14:4? What is the context dealing with? Your conclusion is not very valid.
We are in the church age at this present moment and then we will be in His millennial reign.
Yes, one could say that this is the "church" age, i.e., the age of God's chosen people, the ones "called out for His purpose"! This is also the last age before Christ returns and raises all the dead, rapturing (if I may use that term) the righteous raised along with the righteous living at that time - then the judgment of the raised unrighteous and the punishment to be served: the second death in the lake of fire. I realize that you won't accept that, but that's what the Bible tells us - and I don't believe Jesus, Peter and Paul were lying about it.
I did and accept it as it stands! Word for word! Jesus did not rebuke them for asking it. He didn't say that they misunderstood him. He didn't say that he was finished with Israel. He didn't say the Church will be the new Israel.
Jesus didn't say many things on that occasion. He didn't say He was waiting for various signs and news articles to be written. He didn't say they had to wait for the "millennium" (of whatever flavor) for the Kingdom to come. Concerning Israel, well, he said that their kingdom would be taken away from them and given to a nation that had faith - the "called out ones" from among the populace, or the "church". That "kingdom" is God's Kingdom, or the Kingdom of Heaven.
I'll take Jesus' word for it. How about you???
I'll take Jesus' word for it also. How about you!!!
Since I am a Christian I have been led to believe he was a child. I will further refer you to Rabbi Bob Alper (my favorite commedian)who I stole the joke from. Argue with the Rabbi. Shalom.
14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;(including the USA) and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 00193 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 00194 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 00195 14:5 And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. 00196 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark: 00197 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light. 00198 14:8 And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 00199 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Perhaps, as a way of establishing a foundation on which to discuss the promise God made to Abraham, which of course would be unbreakable, one could ask a question of all. The question is this: Is the promise made to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 the same promise as that made to Eve in Genesis 3:15, albeit with greater detail? If some on this thread consider the two promises to be different, how are they materially different from each other? I do not see how any profitable discussion can go forward without resolving this simple but important question.
Neither will I. As far as what you quoted Zec. 14, well, the context doesn't bode well if related to the end of this last age. It seems to have happened in the past. Since Jesus' time, there is to be no more sacrifice for sins, for He died once for all times. Likewise, there is no need for the celebration of festivals, etc., for the keeping of feast days in a religious sense is not a part of the Good News of salvation.
So we missed the day of the Lord?
I'd say the promise made to Eve in Genesis 3:15 refers to Christ's coming. The promise made to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 advances the plan of God as pertains to Christ Jesus - and thusly, to our salvation through faith, just as the promise to Abraham was given by his faith that God was able to raise the dead.
HUH? Explain, please. What day is that?
The day of the Lord is the same as that great and terrible day when me will hid in the rock and the ground when men's hearts will melt. Yes Christ has done away with the sacrifice in this present age but the next age there will be memorial sacrifices unto God not for the covering of sin.
Where in the Bible do you find another "age" to come after the Bible tells us that we are in the "end of the ages"? And, where do you find that there will be "memorial sacrifices unto God" in a "next age"? Let us all in on the secret!!!
Here is the Mal quote 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he [is] like a refiner's fire, and like fullers ' soap: 00034 3:3 And he shall sit [as] a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 00035 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
So, that means ...?
Are the two promises essentially the same promise or not, that is, the promise of a Savior who will undo the fall into sin? Or are they different in any way? It is important to establish this since this is where people begin to part ways theologically/biblically.
LG is discounting scripture to begin with, as God’s voice told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac.
No it is not. It is the Kingdom OF ISRAEL that will be RESTORED AGAIN. That is the question that was asked and the question that was answered.
Matthew 12:32: " ... it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come".
and Ephesians 2:7: "That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace ...".
The article says:
“In that day (not the same day God made the original promise) Jehovah made a covenant
with Abraham, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto
the great river, the Euphrates” (Gen 15:18). This promise was completely fulfilled after
the Israelites returned from Egypt.
I pose the question. If the promise was “completely fulfilled”, then why is it that Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and others, more than a thousand years after the covenant was made with Abraham and more than seven hundred years after Joshua entered the promised land, speak of the return of the house of Judah and Israel to their “land”. The author leaves out a critical time gap from 931 BC during the reign of Solomon when the Kingdom of Solomon was split into the two houses and the dispersal of the house of Israel in 721 AD, until 70 AD when the remaining predominantly house of Judah was dispersed from the land. The two houses lost the inheritance due to idolatrous practices and are now in the process of returning to the land inheritance a second time. That is what redemption is -— the return to the land inheritance. It also occurs during a Jubilee year. The beginning of the seventh day Shabbat (mellinium) of rest here on planet earth.
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
Jer 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Blessings in your search for TRUTH
I know you won't be convinced by anything I say, but none of those verses you mentioned above say anything about sacrificial sacrifices during a future 1K years in a 1K Millennial Temple.
Here is the Mal quote 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he [is] like a refiner's fire, and like fullers ' soap: 00034 3:3 And he shall sit [as] a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 00035 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
Again, you'll not be convinced by anything I may say, but this last attempt of yours, IMHO (and millions of others) these verses reference the first Advent of Christ and were conditional upon the acceptance of Him as the Christ. Yes, that is just one of a few interpretations that are aligned against millennial theories.
No it is not. It is the Kingdom OF ISRAEL that will be RESTORED AGAIN. That is the question that was asked and the question that was answered.
Negative! When Jesus said that the Kingdom would be taken away from them and given to another nation, that other nation is the "ekklesia" - i.e, what one calls the church: which is not "national" but worldwide. Jesus never said that the nation of Israel would be restored as a "kingdom" on this earth in a future age. The "New Jerusalem" is the whole body of Christians which are the "bride of Christ" mentioned in the book of Revelation: and sometimes mentioned as Israel figuratively.
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