[conservativegramma]

And again you are wearing blinders. And Lerins was correctly quoted, you just refuse to see because it might cause you to question your sainted magisterium.

You just don't get it. You can't believe there was even so much as ONE sinless person (including Mary) without embracing pelagianism. Since we know there is indeed the doctrine of ORIGINAL SIN, there CANNOT be even ONE person exempted. PERIOD. When your sainted magisterium lays claim to that ONE person named Mary who was suddenly conceived WITHOUT SIN, then you have denied the time honored dogma of original sin. By doing so you have embraced heresy.

There is absolutely NO Scriptural support for Mary's immaculate conception. Even you Catholics admit this from the Catholic Encylopdia. Key phrase: "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."

The only vague Scripture you twist to try and show some scriptural support for this heretical dogma is Luke 1:28. But "full of grace" in that passage can not possibly mean conceived without sin, for the very same word is used in Ephesians 1:6 referring to ALL believers.

Contrary to the Roman Catholic teaching, Scripture plainly teaches that all Adam's descendents share his sinful nature: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12). Therefore all Adam's children need to be saved. Mary herself, a natural descendant of Adam, calls God "my savior" (Luke 1:47). Evidently she did not know the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception!

It is Christ alone, the eternal Son who was supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin woman, it is ever expressly stated that He was "without sin" (Hebrews 4:15). Christ alone is immaculate from conception; therefore He alone is qualified to die in the place of sinners. Christ, who knew no sin, "bore our sins in His own body on the tree" (1 Peter 2:24).

Take the blinders off. The unbiblical dogmas taught by the RCC supplant Christ, they deny Him His glory, His majesty, His power, and His saving work on the Cross. They are HERESY and have been heresy since the 5th century when such ideas were FIRST introduced!!

[Cronos]

And Lerins was correctly quoted,

Lerins said "'Who ever originated a heresy that did not first dissever himself from the consentient agreement of the universality and antiquity of the Catholic Church? That this is so is demonstrated in the clearest way by examples. For who ever before the profane Pelagius attributed so much antecedent strength to Free-will, as to deny the necessity of God's grace to aid it towards every good in every single act? Who ever before his monstrous disciple Celestius denied that the whole human race is involved in the guilt of Adam's sin?" --> where exactly is he saying anything aginst the IC. Remember Pelagius' heresy was that ALL were free from the stain of Adam's sin. The Church disagrees with that. Mary was an exception, a creature created for a specific purpose, as an ark.

Your error was in misquoting Lerins to mean something completely differenty.

To say God made an exception is not possible is to say that you put a limitation on God's power.

Note that the no direct or categorical and stringent proof does not mean that it is wrong. It is wrong if it contradicts scripture -- and the IC does not.

Review what exactly your Pentecostal or Presbyterian pastor has told you.