Posted on 05/27/2010 6:44:33 AM PDT by Colofornian
The discussion on Book of Mormon geography was getting heated. Scholars gathered in Provo, Utah, to discuss their theories about where the events described in the Book of Mormon took place. Some placed the Nephite capital city Zarahemla in Mesoamerica, others in South America. Others argued for a setting in the American heartland.
The president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attended the two-day Book of Mormon convention. Although he found the discussion interesting, he was obviously concerned that people were getting a little too worked up about their geographic theories. He decided to intervene.
The Book of Mormon geography conference was held at Brigham Young Academy on May 23-24, 1903. But the advice President Joseph F. Smith gave at that conference 107 years ago could apply equally to current disputes over Book of Mormon geography.
"President Smith spoke briefly," the Deseret News account summarized, "and expressed the idea that the question of the city (of Zarahemla) was one of interest certainly, but if it could not be located the matter was not of vital importance, and if there were differences of opinion on the question it would not affect the salvation of the people; and he advised against students considering it of such vital importance as the principles of the Gospel."
More recently, the Encyclopedia of Mormonism described how "Church leadership officially and consistently distances itself from issues regarding Book of Mormon geography."
But the lack of an official position hasn't squelched interest. The subject attracts highly trained archaeologists and scholars and informed — and not-so-informed — amateurs and enthusiasts. Books, lectures and even Book of Mormon lands tours abound.
But something is rotten in Zarahemla — wherever it may be.
In the middle of what could be a fun and intellectually exciting pursuit similar to archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann's famous search for the lost city of Troy, there are accusations of disloyalty tantamount to apostasy.
In one corner is the more-established idea of a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon. This theory places the events of the book in a limited geographic setting that is about the same size as ancient Israel. The location is in southern Mexico and Guatemala. The person most often associated with this theory is John L. Sorenson, a retired professor of anthropology at BYU, and the author of "An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon" and a series of articles on Book of Mormon geography that ran in the Ensign magazine in September and October 1984. A new book, tentatively titled "Mormon's Codex," is in the process of being published.
In the other corner is the challenger, a new theory that places Book of Mormon events in a North American "heartland" setting. Like the Mesoamerican theory, it also is limited in area — but not quite as limited. Its symbolic head is Rod L. Meldrum and, more recently, Bruce H. Porter. Meldrum and Porter are the co-authors of the book "Prophecies and Promises," which promotes the heartland setting.
It wouldn't be hard to predict that some friction might come about from competing theories — that healthy sparring would occur with arguments and counter-arguments. But it has gone beyond that.
The source of the animosity comes from the heartland theory's mantra: "Joseph knew."
Joseph Smith made several statements that can be interpreted to have geographic implications. Proponents of a North American setting see these statements as authoritative and based in revelation. Mesoamerican theorists think that Joseph Smith's ideas about geography expanded over time and included approval of at least some connection to Central America.
To the heartlander, Joseph's knowledge about Book of Mormon locations is seen as proof of his divine calling and a testament to his being the chosen translator/expert of the book. Joseph didn't just know; he knew everything. This position, however, leaves little room for other opinions — or for charity.
"The way I look at Joseph Smith's statements is that he either knew or he didn't know. If he knew, he knew by revelation. And if he didn't know, you've got to ask yourself why he said the things that he said," Porter said. "If he didn't know, was he trying to show off? If he really didn't know, why was he telling people?
"My feeling is that Joseph Smith did not lie," Porter said.
If you don't agree with this line of reasoning, by implication, you think that Joseph lied.
"My authority is Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon," Porter said. "Most of your Mesoamerican theorists, their authority is John Sorenson and Matthew Roper. They picked those as their authority at the neglect of Joseph Smith."
Matthew P. Roper, a research scholar at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute Of Religious Scholarship, naturally doesn't like this characterization. "They seem to be trying to elevate a question of lesser importance, Book of Mormon geography, to the level of the doctrines of the church," Roper said. "And even though they give lip service to things like they know the church has not given an official position, they turn around and say, 'All these people are dismissing Joseph Smith.' "
It is somewhat ironic that believing that Joseph did not "know" also supports Joseph as a prophet. The more Joseph's assumptions about Book of Mormon geography prove to be wrong, the greater a testimony that he did not write the book himself. "We assume," Roper said, "that since Joseph Smith was the translator of the Book of Mormon, and that it was translated by the gift and power of God, that he would know everything about the book that an author would. I would submit that the two are not the same thing. I could translate the 'Wars of Caesar' and not know anything about ancient Gaul or the different tribes."
When Meldrum's theories first became popularized through firesides and a DVD he produced, the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR) took notice and responded with gusto.
"The way he said things, they attack that more than they attack the evidence that he presented," Porter said.
Scott Gordon, president of FAIR, would not disagree. "We view this as a steadying-of-the-ark issue. We really don't care where he picks for his theory on where the Book of Mormon can take place," Gordon said. "What we care about that he is implying that the church is not following the teachings of Joseph Smith. Which means the church leadership, the prophet — everything is not following. And we think that is a very, very dangerous position."
"They are getting really worried because they are seeing this is becoming a movement. That's their words," Meldrum said. "They are just saying it's a movement because they are getting a lot of flak from people who are seeing the DVD and the information and thinking, 'You know what, this makes a lot of sense.' "
But supporters also see the heartland theory as an inspired movement that will transform the LDS Church: "(V)ery few people out there fully grasp the magnitude of this movement and the powerful influence that it is having and the sweeping nature of its message," wrote one prominent supporter. "It will sweep the church and most LDS will not even understand what happened until it's past. … Time is our friend."
A movement — about geography?
Historian Ronald O. Barney has seen similar attitudes in some people supporting Mesoamerica. One person described a particular Mesoamerican book as "life-transforming" and that the book "changed the way I think about everything."
Life-transforming?
"People are hanging their faith on evidence of Book of Mormon peoples," Barney said.
"I just think that this way of thinking about our religion is such a waste of time," Barney said, "It almost suggests we don't trust the Holy Ghost. Not only are we worried that he won't reveal to people the truthfulness of the book, but we want to augment it — even if we have to bend and distort — so that there can be no mistake about its truthfulness."
Meldrum said he doesn't hang his testimony on the heartland theory.
"I don't know that this geography is true. I've said that many times and I want to make sure that that's clear. If President Monson was to tomorrow say, 'You know what? I've had a revelation and the Book of Mormon occurred in Indonesia,' you know what? I'm with him." Meldrum said with a laugh.
John L. Sorenson stands by the Mesoamerican theory, but also the Prophet.
"(Geography) wasn't very important to him and he didn't know much about it," Sorenson said. "Joseph knew what he knew — and what he knew was far more important than geography."
Joseph's nephew, President Joseph F. Smith, would probably agree.
We express profound regret for the massacre carried out in this valley 150 years ago today, and for the undue and untold suffering experienced by the victims then and by their relatives to the present time,” Elder Eyring said.
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“express profound regret” for what ???
That the world knows ???
The embarrassment ???
The bad PR ???
That the 17 children who survived and were kidnapped by the mormons for two years until a large ransom of $10,000 was paid to Briggy Young, werent murdered too so they could not tell ???
No real WE ARE SORRY...
as one of the comments reads “The word “apology” only appears in the title of the article”
amd also the statement was not by the “president/prophet” of the mormons but by a Robert Gibbs type...
Last century Gov. Bond of Missouri apologized to Mormons for “Extermination Order.”
Illinois apologized to Mormons for abuses heaped on them by the State.
In both cases Mormons accepted the apology as rendered.
I simply responded to #7 that in fact an apology was issued by the Mormons It was. Period.
What exactly makes this massacre site “sacred ground” to the mormon church, since it wasn’t mormons who were massacred?
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Head exploder isnt it ???
and yet the mormons wont let the victims families have uncontrolled access to the cemetery of their loved ones...
Its a sick situation...
For what reason did the mormons even bother to pay lipservice and deliver that pseudo “apology”???
I find you and a few others here quite amusing. I simply stated an apology was rendered. It was.
Was it sincere? Was Gov. Bond’s apology? The State of Illinois? Was Bill Clinton’s apology to Africa sincere?
Have you hugged a Mormon today?
Anti-Mormon legend has it that when the Elders caught Joe smoking and drinking,
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Why would that be an “anti-mormon legend” ???
The mormons smoked and drank during that time...
Both Joey Smith and Briggy Young sold liquer to their followers...
Both had dances and parties...
Smith had a bar in his hotel...
Briggy Young cheated one of his followers out of a successful brewery and made it even larger...
Young preached that he didnt smoke but he never ordered the mormons not to..he just said he didnt..
So why is there scant commentary in your various posts about J. Smith’s time in Hickory Grove, Penn?
Let me re-phrase that....Why is so little written about that period of time? Circa 1820-25. A very interesting period in American History.
Much of the land near Hickory Grove was granted to vets of War of 1812. 160 acres each (IIRC)in “wilderness” of Penn.
Was Gov. Bond’s apology?
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What did Bond need to apologize about ???
The mormons were murdering and kidnapping women and stealing from the citizens in MO..
They were causing riots and controlling the voting booths...
Gov Boggs told them to quit it or leave...if they didnt quit it and they wouldnt leave, they would be made to leave...
Gov Boggs had a responsibility to protect the citizens of his state...
Joey Smith wrote about the crimes the mormons were committing in Kirkland OH and it was the same in MO and said that the mormon god was not pleased with the mormons..
D&C 98:18-19: “Behold...am not well pleased with many who are in the church at Kirtland; For they do not forsake their sins, and their wicked ways, the pride of their hearts, and their covetousness, and all their detestable things...”
D&C 50:4 — what Smith told the LDS church at Kirtland in May, 1831: “Behold...have looked upon you, and have seen abominations in the church that profess my name...”
“...the inhabitants of Zion are terrible...” (D&C 45:70)
Also, Smith said that the affliction, persecution and being cast out of the land of inheritance (D&C 101:1)
was because God “suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions...” (D&C 101:2)
Have you hugged a Mormon today?
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Even better...
I’ve warned them about their false religion...
How about you ???
There you go again, using lds words.......you know how that upsets them.
Did a Mormon once cut you off in traffic or what?
In years past, yes, I have hugged a Mormon. Try it sometime. Or is/was that the problem?
Not all heroes wear tights and a cape...
The mormons are ghouls...and still involved in a cover up...
When those investigators examined some of the skulls etc they found bullet holes from guns...shot at close range...even tiny babies...
The Paiutes had bows and arrows...only the white mormons had guns..
When that was announced the investigations were stopped by the mormons with no reasonable explanation...
Good maybe they’ll move far away from the rest for their upset and towards Jesus...
I’ve hugged a man with AIDS...
Try it some time...
If there’s no Land of Oz maybe there’s no Dorothy, Tin Man,
etc. As Jesus said, ‘He that is faithful in least is faithful in much’.
Is that what happened to you ???
A Christian cut you off in traffic ???
You appear to be continually attempting to bait me, a Christian...
Now why would you be doing that if you were a habitual hugger of Christians ???
Was he a Mormon?
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