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To: annalex
I'm releaved that you converted. For quite some time the USA Catholic Church has been teaching the bare minimum to it's converts and the cradle Catholic children. It does not surprise me that you confuse the details. I am a man, a cradle Catholic, from a Catholic culture, but raised in the USA. I was not ever educated in anything post Vatican II, modernist, or progressive, or at the very least I was never “slow boiled” in those errors.

If you throw a from in a pot of boiling water, it will immediately jump out. If, however, you put it into a pot of room temperature water, and slowly bring the water to a boil, the frog will lay there and fall asleep, die, and be boiled. That is what has happened to Catholics around the world, they have listened to the progressivist/modernist/liberal/effeminate clergy de-catholicize the faith, till they were cooked, they lost the faith, or learned a false Catholicism, if they even stayed long enough. Most, don't go to mass anymore. In Austria a Catholic country, scarcely 5% go to mass on Sunday. And of the ones that go, few are left that have not been un-catholicized, Protestantized, they don't know much, about the Faith.

It is not every day that I meet one who believes that her church "speaks with a forked tongue" and remains in it.

One does not leave the ONLY TRUE CHURCH, the Catholic Church, because it's hierarchy speaks with a forked tongue on fallible matters. You don't leave the Church because a pope lived an immoral life. The Church and her infalllible doctrines are not affected by the fallible actions of men. Let them leave if they want.

43 posted on 05/27/2010 8:54:36 AM PDT by Leoni
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To: Leoni

To your recent three posts.

I don’t know what difference it should make to you that I converted, — or, more accurately, switched over to the Catholic Church. All my Christian education, save the barest foundation of it, I received as an adult and as Catholic. I have an actual dislike for the Russian Orthodox Church in particular, given its shameful servility under Communism.

But you, if I may comment on thsi personal matter, do have a problem as a professed Catholic. You do not go around second-guessing the councils of the Church no matter how modernizing they seem to you; you certainly do not insult your Mother Church with “forked tongue” regardless of what her teaching is about. I also have a problem with much of how Vatican II was understood and applied; I fully understand that the state of the Church in the West is quite deplorable. That being said, the ecumentical stance of the Church toward the Orthodox happens to be clearly formulated by the Holy Father, the Vatican II council, as as we’ve seen did not even originate with Vatican II. As a Catholic you owe obedience to your Church even if some of her positions do not sit well with you. Infallible or not, it remains a well articulated position of the Church that the theological differences with the East do not constitute a heresy.

It is true that the Orthodox deny the recent Catholic dogmas. But that does not constitute heresy because heresy implies that the knowledge was revealed and then denied. Since the dogmas are new, they were not revealed to the Orthodox Churches. Obviously, no reunification will be possible till an agreement is reached on them in an ecumenical council. Till such time, the Orthodox are in schism also on that score, but not in heresy.

The Filioque is a matter of church governance, because it was adopted without consulting the East. That is the principal grievance that the Orthodox have about it. The Catholic Church allows the Filioque to be omitted in the Creed as it is said in the Eastern Catholic Churches. The underlying theology does not seem to be all that divergent in the East. Naturally, that remains an obstacle for reunification as well, at least int he mind of the Orthodox, but it does not happen to be an obstacle for us.


46 posted on 05/27/2010 6:46:42 PM PDT by annalex
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