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To: Leoni

To your recent three posts.

I don’t know what difference it should make to you that I converted, — or, more accurately, switched over to the Catholic Church. All my Christian education, save the barest foundation of it, I received as an adult and as Catholic. I have an actual dislike for the Russian Orthodox Church in particular, given its shameful servility under Communism.

But you, if I may comment on thsi personal matter, do have a problem as a professed Catholic. You do not go around second-guessing the councils of the Church no matter how modernizing they seem to you; you certainly do not insult your Mother Church with “forked tongue” regardless of what her teaching is about. I also have a problem with much of how Vatican II was understood and applied; I fully understand that the state of the Church in the West is quite deplorable. That being said, the ecumentical stance of the Church toward the Orthodox happens to be clearly formulated by the Holy Father, the Vatican II council, as as we’ve seen did not even originate with Vatican II. As a Catholic you owe obedience to your Church even if some of her positions do not sit well with you. Infallible or not, it remains a well articulated position of the Church that the theological differences with the East do not constitute a heresy.

It is true that the Orthodox deny the recent Catholic dogmas. But that does not constitute heresy because heresy implies that the knowledge was revealed and then denied. Since the dogmas are new, they were not revealed to the Orthodox Churches. Obviously, no reunification will be possible till an agreement is reached on them in an ecumenical council. Till such time, the Orthodox are in schism also on that score, but not in heresy.

The Filioque is a matter of church governance, because it was adopted without consulting the East. That is the principal grievance that the Orthodox have about it. The Catholic Church allows the Filioque to be omitted in the Creed as it is said in the Eastern Catholic Churches. The underlying theology does not seem to be all that divergent in the East. Naturally, that remains an obstacle for reunification as well, at least int he mind of the Orthodox, but it does not happen to be an obstacle for us.


46 posted on 05/27/2010 6:46:42 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
Re: Infallible or not, it remains a well articulated position of the Church that the theological differences with the East do not constitute a heresy.

"Well articulated"? where is your "well articulated". Not classifying them in the category of heretics in the Catholic encyclopedia is not "well articulated". You have not provided any "well articulation".

All the Eastern Orthodox are in heresy, I articulated just some of the doctrines in which they are in heresy, there are many more. Is there a new definition of heresy that you've come up with?

If a Catholic denies the doctrine of the indissolubility of marriage, he is a heretic. The Orthodox can get divorced twice and married three times. Heresy means heresy.

47 posted on 05/28/2010 8:31:24 AM PDT by Leoni
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To: annalex
Re: It is true that the Orthodox deny the recent Catholic dogmas. But that does not constitute heresy because heresy implies that the knowledge was revealed and then denied. Since the dogmas are new, they were not revealed to the Orthodox Churches.

Enough is enough, stop writing your own musings, you are just winging it. There is no point in discussing anything with you because you live in your own world. Heresy is a defined term that anyone can look up in one second.

from : MY CATHOLIC FAITH

71. Schism and Heresy

What is schism; and what is heresy? --Schism is the refusal to submit to the authority of the Pope; heresy is the formal denial or doubt by a baptized person of any revealed truth of the Catholic Faith.

What were the most important schisms and heresies that have tried to destroy the Church? ......

The greatest schism suffered by the Christian Church was that of the East, resulting in the establishment of the Orthodox Eastern Church. The Eastern emperors, desiring more power in the Church, tried to make the patriarchs of Constantinople independent of Rome. Finally, Photius, with the support of the emperor, held a council of Eastern bishops in the year 867, and broke from Rome.

The cause of the schism was not doctrinal, but rather political and material,- jealousy between the East and the West. It has resulted in the separation from Rome of 145 million people with valid priesthood and sacraments. In the United States there are a number of schismatical churches, among them the Greek Orthodox, and the Russian Church.

After minor schisms and misunderstandings between East and West in 1054 there was a final break by Cerularius, patriarch of Constantinople, continuing today.

Today the Orthodox Eastern Church remains in schism, but does not spread. It is a withered branch, having cut itself off from the parent tree.

The Orthodox Eastern Church denies the Catholic dogma that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and the Son. It also teaches that the souls of the just will not attain complete happiness till the end of the world, when they will be joined to their bodies; and that the souls of the wicked will not suffer complete torture in hell until that last day. These are heresies against the doctrines of the Church.

Thus it can be seen that today the Orthodox Eastern Church is not merely schismatical, but truly heretical; for it holds primary doctrines in a different light. But it has valid orders. (See Chapter 55 on The Catholic Eastern Church; Rites)

48 posted on 05/28/2010 10:56:18 AM PDT by Leoni
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