You nailed it, Sister!
Posted on 05/21/2010 8:22:46 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
You nailed it, Sister!
No, honey, we weren’t. Angels are different creatures. They, like humans are created beings, not ‘pre-existant spirits’
Since it is Sunday, and I am running behind schedule, I am posting a ‘cut and paste’. Sorry.
From: http://www.beliefnet.com/Inspiration/Angels/2000/05/About-Angels.aspx
# God created angels as angels (Colossians 1:16). They have never been anything else. People do not become angels when they die. We do not know how many angels there are, but the Bible refers to them as an innumerable company (Hebrews 12:22).
# God created the angels as spirit beings (Psalm 104:4). Because they are spirits, they are unseen by human eyes. An angel takes on a form that can be seen temporarily if this will help an angel do his assigned task on earth. In the Bible, angels are highly diverse in appearance. They are usually so awesome when they appear that their first words are, “Fear not.” Angelic appearances in the Scriptures include being seen as a bright light, fire, having wings (but never a halo), or like an ordinary person. As spirit beings, angels are not only invisible but also immortal. They never get sick or die. They are without gender as we know it, being neither male nor female, and they do not marry (Matthew 22:28-30).
# A major characteristic of the angels is their strength. Angels are extremely powerful beings. In the Bible, they are described as “mighty ones” (Psalm 103:20) and God’s powerful angels. One angel was able to destroy the entire Assyrian army or destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. But they are not all powerful; only God is omnipotent. Angels sometimes require assistance from the Lord in their conflict with evil (Jude 9).
# Angels have great knowledge and wisdom. They know more than people do, but they do not know everything. Only God is omniscient. The heavenly hosts also have emotions. In the Bible, we read that they rejoice, sing for joy, and express awe and reverence in their worship of God. Even as their intelligence is greater than humans, so we may also suppose their ability to have deep and sensitive emotions is greater.
Angelic Job Descriptions
In the popular culture, the main focus is on what angels do on earth. But the noted theologian Karl Barth wrote that most of what angels do they do in heaven. In heaven, the worship of God is the crowning jewel of all activity (Revelation 4). But the Bible only infrequently draws back the curtain and gives us a glimpse of the unseen world. We have little idea of what is happening there. The Bible does indicate that the angels are active in the administration of this vast area of God’s creation and that they willingly and enthusiastically carry out God’s will (Psalm 103:19-22).
God also assigns angels to do many things on earth. They are ministering spirits sent to serve those who believe (Hebrews 1:14). Angels are God’s messengers. In fact, the word “angel” in the original languages of both the Old and New Testaments means “messenger.” The angelic message remembered most often is when Gabriel announced to Mary that she would be the mother of Jesus.
God still uses his angels to give messages. They bring encouragement and needed guidance. But the main way God gives us messages today is through the Bible, the teachings of Christ, and the work of the Holy Spirit within a believer.
Some of the heavenly hosts are assigned to be guardian angels (Psalm 91:11). They carry out God’s will by protecting and delivering their charges from harm. They also engage in spiritual warfare. There are law-and-order angels.
Angels were present at the giving of the Ten Commandments (Deuteronomy 33:2), and they carry out God’s justice (Acts 12:23). Jesus taught that at the time of death, angels carry believers to heaven (Luke 16:22).
Angels are not just a fad. The heavenly hosts have been with us since the beginning of creation and will continue to do their work, whether or not we humans pay attention to them. Those looking for reliable information about angels will do well to go beyond the ideas popularized in motion pictures and television. A study of what the Bible teaches about these magnificent, mystical beings is fascinating and rewarding.
We were all angels at one time before came to earth.
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Prove that from the Bible, please.
Of course angels are different from human beings but we were angels before we received our 1st estate.
Jude 1: 6 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Just because something 'rings true' doesn't make it true. As a conservative you should know that.
Second, We were angels BEFORE we became spirit children (our first estate according to Mormonism)? That makes NO sense.
Third, Jude 1: 5-6 - context resty, the ANGELS (not us) who did not keep THEIR (not our) 'first estate' were cast down. That verse specifically shows that Angels are not 'pre-existent spirits'. Angels are assigned roles (see previous post) and can sin (2 Peter 2:4), this sin is them rebelling (like Lucifer) against their roles and being cast out (like Lucifer). That is what Jude is saying here. Secondly, if you look at the full context of the passage you will see that Jude is MAKING A COMPARISON between Angels (not humans) who sin and humans who sin. God judges both, because He is creator of BOTH.
Verse 8 shows 'in a similar way' to the angels and Sodom and Gommorah that the 'sin' of the Angels' (their not keeping their estate) is the rejection of authority and slander of God. That is why they were cast out.
Jude 1:6 has NOTHING to do with pre-existent humans.
Here is the NIV of Jude 1:5-7:
5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
8In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings.
Fourth, BOA has been proven to be a false document and therefore is not valid for argument.
good analogy.
No, grasshopper, we humans were NEVER angels...
and we will NEVER be angels...
Humans are humans and angels are angels...
We started our existance here on Earth...
We NEVER had a pre-mortal existance..
We were NEVER in Heaven before we were born...
We will go to Heaven for the first time when we die...
IF we are saved...
Otherwise we will spend eternity in Hell with Satan who was a fallen angel and NEVER a “spirit child” or “spirit brother” to God or to us humans...
Christians will spend eternity in Heaven...
Jude 1: 6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
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Angels, not humans...
I have no bones in what you brought into from the philosophy of men is a lie!
___________________________________________
I have no bones in what Resty brought into from the philosophy of the man Joey Smith is a lie!
That is because you only have a half a loaf!
__________________________________________
And you are desparate for a small slice of Elsie’s half loaf...
That is IF what you said was true which it is NOT true because JS was called of the Lord Jesus Christ!
It seems your tongue gets the best of you...
there you go mindereading and putting your own thoughts in motion
“...which it is NOT true because JS was called of
the Lord Jesus Christ!’
How do you know Ol’ Joe was called of the Lord?
Because he claimed he was.
How do you know his claim was true?
You had a feeling.
How do you know your feeling was true?
You know it came from God.
How do you know your feeling was from God?
You felt a burning.
How do you know your burning was from God?
You just know because it is from God.
How do you know what you know?
Mormons never know. They feel and their feelings are true
because they prayed.
The Bible? pffft.
Milk before meat seems to spoils your agenda...
LOL
This is what Lucifer did in the garden he was teaching meat before milk knowing it would cause others to stumble....
No Joey Smith was not called by the LORD Jesus Christ of the Christian Bible...
The evil that Joey Smith did cannot be blamed on God...
Joey Smith never met Jesus...
He just listened to demons...
Because he wanted lots of sex, money power over other people...
Philosophies of man ??? Yeah that was Joey Smith...
This is what Lucifer did in the garden he was teaching meat before milk knowing it would cause others to stumble....
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Got Bible scripture for that astounding comment ???
Cheese for supper will cause those same burning feelings...
The cheese god commands that you smile and say “Cheese”
...and THIS is what the followers of Joseph Smith are teaching to cause others to LOL!
Straight from the "Philosophy of CONmen"!
That's some pretty aggressive boasting you have going on right there. You've attended EVERY "mainstream" church and have studied their doctrines enough to be able to lay that absurd claim in this forum?
Also, and more importantly, a severe accusation against all "mainstream" religions and churches considering the LdS are never included in your definition of "mainstream".
Do you have ANY PROOF to substantiate that claim?
I didn't think so.
Sacred DOES NOT EQUAL secret. NEVER HAS NEVER WILL. That is yet ANOTHER lie the LDS teach.
I can tell you sacred things all day long, because they are NOT HIDDEN! Christ revealed all upon His death.
Go to a Bible teaching church (I double dog dare you) and you will hear the Gospel of Grace in full, none of this ‘milk before meat’ junk.
More verses taken out of context Resty. But I doubt you will listen if I provide context. So general overview of the verses will have to do...
There are many examples in the Bible of people NOT listening to the truth and doing like the LDS on here do for example and shutting their eyes and ears to what the Bible really says and going ‘lalalalalala - I can’t hear you’ because it contradicts what they hear at the LDS church. Or biblically, it contradicted what the pharisees or the pagan religions taught.
LDS teachings contradict the Bible, Christian teachings do not. Therefore there is NO REASON AT ALL to hide doctrine and if the LDS church had the truth AT ALL, they would be honest. The fact that they lie, hide, whitewash and obfuscate speaks volumes that their ‘master’ is the father of lies (Satan).
****
In the Gospel of Matthew (13:10-17) Jesus provides an answer when asked about his use of parables:[19]
The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied,
“The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables:
Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.”
While Mark 4:33-34 and Matthew 13:34-35 may suggest that Jesus would only speak to the “crowds” in parables, while in private explaining everything to his disciples, modern scholar do not support the private explanations argument and surmise that Jesus used parables as a teaching method.[20] Dwight Pentecost suggests that given that Jesus often preached to a mixed audience of believers and non-believers, he used parables to reveal the truth to some, but hide it from others.[21]
Christian author Ashton Axenden suggests that Jesus constructed his parables based on his divine knowledge of how man can be taught:[22]
This was a mode of teaching, which our blessed Lord seemed to take special delight in employing. And we may be quite sure, that as “He knew what was in man” better than we know, He would not have taught by Parables, if He had not felt that this was the kind of teaching best suited to our wants.
In the 19th century, Lisco and Fairbairn stated that in the parables of Jesus, “the image borrowed from the visible world is accompanied by a truth from the invisible (spiritual) world” and that the parables of Jesus are not “mere similitudes which serve the purpose of illustration, but are internal analogies where nature becomes a witness for the spiritual world”.[23]
Similarly, in the 20th century, calling a parable “an earthly story with a heavenly meaning”, William Barclay states that the parables of Jesus use familiar examples to lead men’s minds towards heavenly concepts. He suggests that Jesus did not form his parables merely as analogies but based on an “inward affinity between the natural and spiritual orders”.[24] WIKI
Most teachers, especially Oriental teachers, have used some form of parable in their instruction, but none so exclusively as Jesus at one period of his ministry.
During part of the Galilean ministry the record states that “without a parable spake he not unto them” (Mark 4: 34).
From our Lord’s words (Matt. 13: 13-15; Mark 4: 12; Luke 8: 10) we learn the reason for this method.
It was to veil the meaning. The parable conveys to the hearer religious truth exactly in proportion to his faith and intelligence; to the dull and uninspired it is a mere story, “seeing they see not,” while to the instructed and spiritual it reveals the mysteries or secrets of the kingdom of heaven.
Thus it is that the parable exhibits the condition of all true knowledge. Only he who seeks finds. ~ BD
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