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To: allmendream; Alamo-Girl; DrewsMum; metmom
There is only a “time problem” if you think that the Bible is going to give you any difinitive knowledge as to the physical age of the universe.

The Bible doesn't give us a "definitive age" for anything. It reveals a tension between God's view from eternity (especially noticeable in Genesis 1–3 as A-G has pointed out) and the view from man's contingent, finite position within that eternity — i.e., "within God's Time" — which is (from our human point of view) "no-time," or timelessness.... Humans experience time in a way radically different than God does, Who sees everything in heaven and on earth "from Alpha to Omega" simultaneously — that is, ALL AT ONCE, as if in a single eternal moment.

We humans, on the other hand, are relentlessly conditioned to sense time as serial and irreversible, moving moment to moment from past to present to future.

Moreover, the Bible does not purport to be a textbook in physics.

You wrote:

The universe is immensely old [current estimate of ~14–15 billion years]. Figuring out whereby some perspective riding a beam of light it could only be a few thousand years old is an exercise in creationist apologetics.

Well that would be your interpretation, now wouldn't it, allmendream? Still, I think such an interpretation would come as a surprise to Gerald Schroeder.... I strongly doubt he is doing "creationist apologetics." Looks more to me like he's trying to explicate a lesson in the relativity of time....

Why don't you read him, and find out for yourself?

567 posted on 05/17/2010 4:49:39 PM PDT by betty boop (Nil desperandum.)
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To: betty boop; allmendream; Alamo-Girl; DrewsMum
The Bible doesn't give us a "definitive age" for anything. It reveals a tension between God's view from eternity (especially noticeable in Genesis 1–3 as A-G has pointed out) and the view from man's contingent, finite position within that eternity — i.e., "within God's Time" — which is (from our human point of view) "no-time," or timelessness.... Humans experience time in a way radically different than God does, Who sees everything in heaven and on earth "from Alpha to Omega" simultaneously — that is, ALL AT ONCE, as if in a single eternal moment.

We humans, on the other hand, are relentlessly conditioned to sense time as serial and irreversible, moving moment to moment from past to present to future.

Which is exactly why it is such a mistake to assume that our frame of reference is the one to use in interpreting Scripture.

This demand of presuming that scientists have a corner on the determining what is reality market and that their determination is the standard by which we interpret Scripture is rigidly dogmatic of them.

Evolutionists as a whole, tend to scorn anyone who disagrees with them, even to the point of condemning those of obviously significantly greater intellect that they, as if FRevos are brilliant enough to sit in judgment of men of genius and education like Schroeder.

The derision of those who don't think lock step with FRevos adherence to the ToE shows not only their lack of intellectual prowess, but the height of their arrogance.

586 posted on 05/17/2010 8:43:44 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: betty boop; allmendream; DrewsMum; metmom
Thank you so very much for your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

Jewish Physicist Gerald Schroeder is standing on the shoulders of a giant:

"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion." - Albert Einstein

And there are many other physicists (Vafa, Wesson, Tegmark, et al) who focus on the geometry of space/time - some of them proposing there are more than one dimension of time. In such models, time is either a plane or volume, the arrow of time is an illusion to an observer on a worldline in space/time. Past, present and future exist concurrently.

Tegmark's metaphor of the frog and bird in his Level IV Parallel Universe makes the point very well (formatted for easier reading:)

A mathematical structure is an abstract, immutable entity existing outside of space and time. If history were a movie, the structure would correspond not to a single frame of it but to the entire videotape.

Consider, for example, a world made up of pointlike particles moving around in three-dimensional space. In four-dimensional spacetime — the bird perspective — these particle trajectories resemble a tangle of spaghetti.

If the frog sees a particle moving with constant velocity, the bird sees a straight strand of uncooked spaghetti. If the frog sees a pair of orbiting particles, the bird sees two spaghetti strands intertwined like a double helix.

To the frog, the world is described by Newton’s laws of motion and gravitation. To the bird, it is described by the geometry of the pasta — a mathematical structure. The frog itself is merely a thick bundle of pasta, whose highly complex intertwining corresponds to a cluster of particles that store and process information.

Our universe is far more complicated than this example, and scientists do not yet know to what, if any, mathematical structure it corresponds.

Tegmark, Max, “Parallel Universes,” Scientific American, May, 2003

The frog cannot see what the bird sees. He is an observer "in" space/time. He cannot see the beginning and end of every thing or how it fits together.

Moreover, the Bible does not purport to be a textbook in physics.

Indeed, Creation week is described by God in roughly forty statements whereas libraries are filled to the rafters with books on mathematics, physics and physical cosmology.

The words of God must be spiritually discerned.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - I Cor 2:13-14

God's Name is I AM.

595 posted on 05/17/2010 9:31:39 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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