Fatima debate: Some say 'third secret' is still secret

cns ^ | May 10, 2010 | John Thavis

[Pyro7480]

Fr Gruner in the habitually tardy fashion of the Vatican and the Bishops has since been removed from the priesthood and excommunicated

From what I understand (I could be wrong), a bishop in India reinstated Father Gruner.

[steve86]

I still haven’t located any even purported statement of fact that Father Gruner was excommunicated or reinstated, for that matter. I do know of the incardination by the bishop in Hyderabad. I know also of the threat of excommunication from Cardinal Hoyos in 2000. That this threat came about in 2000 means that he could not have been excommunicated earlier. He has never been excommunicated, but relations with the Vatican have been perpetually strained.

[Sporaticus]

I still haven’t located any even purported statement of fact that Father Gruner was excommunicated or reinstated, for that matter. I do know of the incardination by the bishop in Hyderabad. I know also of the threat of excommunication from Cardinal Hoyos in 2000. That this threat came about in 2000 means that he could not have been excommunicated earlier. He has never been excommunicated, but relations with the Vatican have been perpetually strained.


Why didnt you state this before instead of off the bat being confrontational and hateful. I am always open to correction , but not in your purposefully rude style!

I suggest you read 'The Decline and Fall of the Catholic Church in America' by David Carlin instead of clinging to , in my opinion, false but good sounding arguments for the collapse of the Church that revolve around changes in the Mass and Vat II. The traditionalist view of the collapse provides only partial or half-truths in this area. David Carlin , a Catholic, former Democrat Poliitcian(decades ago; renounces it now), Professor of Sociology, really nails it in describing what happened. I've read many books describing Vat II and the aftermath, most books name the personalities involved and their agendas. Carlins book describes it from a sociological perspective which really nails it towards the reasons, the causes and the currents. It has gravitas and is more than simply waving the hands and stating that it was changes to the liturgy or guitar masses,et al. which are incomplete but sound good
http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Catholic-Church-America/dp/1928832792/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273609573&sr=8-1

I also suggest changing your life to receive the Eucharist and to be a part of Catholic life instead of just an intellectual involvement. Somehow your involvement with Catholicism seems charged with enough energy(as evidenced by your hostility to me), but its less than half.

Good Day!

[steve86]

I will look up the book and its reviews, if any, on Amazon. Thanks for the reference. It sounds as though you are capable of authoring an interesting review — have you written one? Good day.

[steve86]

I do have to respond to the second part of your reply. My life doesn’t need to be “changed”; I just need to attend confession (probably at an FSSP parish in the next state). This is not necessarily an easily facilitated thing after all that time and considering my disagreements with the modern church. I am involved with the church with respect to getting our two girls (we are guardians) baptized and through First Communion and taken to religious education all those years in-between (while holding my nose at the Novus parish). We do attend a Tridentine Mass when offered nearby.

[Sporaticus]

I will look up the book and its reviews, if any, on Amazon. Thanks for the reference. It sounds as though you are capable of authoring an interesting review — have you written one?


I have well over a hundred Catholic titles from Amazon in my library,a large part of it unread, seems my collecting habit is currently larger than my reading habit. Only recently have I attempted to do some reviews, more as a marker to what I already own and/or read. I've been tempted to do a review of The Decline and Fall... but really to do a good review in competition with the others, I either have to take notes, up my outlining or read the book twice. Consequently most of my reviews are quite lightweight, unless I'm among the first to review a book. The reviews for the David Carlin book are excellent on Amazon. Let me know in the future if you have read this and what you thought. It certainly has the ability to twist around some of your thinking a bit. An excellent overlay of structured thinking & truth!

http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Catholic-Church-America/dp/1928832792/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273618545&sr=8-1

[steve86]

Far be it from me to disagree with the premise that the decline in certain areas of the church is part of a broader sociological phenomenon. I think that definitely is the case...i.e. modernism; liberalism. But clearly what smacks some of us in the face is the changes in Liturgy, etc.

[steve86]

Are you really in Ireland? How cool! Hope that ash leaves you alone!