Things Mormon women can do to reduce stress

Mormon Times ^ | May 5, 2010 | Sharon Haddock

[Colofornian]

PROVO, Utah -- The over-scheduled, over-involved and over-whelmed Mormon woman needs to do two things to de-stress, said two speakers at the recent Women's Conference at BYU: simply life and ask for God's help. "God placed us here to succeed," Sarah Westerberg said. "But mortality will cause stress. It's a natural byproduct."

SNIP

Her advice included...letting go of what cannot be controlled and ridding life of perfectionism.

She suggested adding two words to a working vocabulary: "Who cares?"

SNIP

[Colofornian]

...essentially your telling me that God made a mistake in condoning polygamists in the past .... and that he really didn’t intend to?

(1) What biblical passages of supposed "condoning" are you referencing?
(2) You can't get any stronger reference in the OT to God telling somebody to engage in an "alternative sexual relationship" than what He told Hosea re: Gomer. But God had a spiritual parallel He was trying to communicate -- that just as Gomer was being unfaithful to Hosea, Israel was likewise being unfaithful to God. But God didn't "condone" prostitution during marriage, nor would He desire to "institutionalize" it. So even if you somehow conclude that "God told" somebody to do it, and there's scant biblical evidence of that, it doesn't mean He "embraced" it or desired it as a new alternative to marriage.

Bottom line:
(a) What God warned Solomon about in His Word before he was even born (Deut 17:17), happened (1 Kings 11:3; Nehemiah 13:26).
(b) God is not the author of deception; therefore, He was NOT the author of Jacob's two wives. (And his wives were the authors of him sleeping with their servant girls, not God).
(c) Sarai authorized Abram sleeping with Hagar, not God. And Hagar is NOT referenced as his wife by Abraham, Moses, the apostle Paul, the Angel of the Lord or Hagar herself!
(d) The book of Jacob in the Book of Mormon declares what David & Solomon did as "abominable". So you now openly call the Book of Mormon into question?

[Tennessee Nana]

If you get time, you should read a bit of Maimonides and other great Jewish scholars
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I have the time right now kid if you have the “information”

[Tennessee Nana]

If you get time, you should read a bit of the book of mormon where it says that the mormon god is against polygamy...

[magritte]

"Name a married woman “in the days of early Judasim” who was also in a “plural marriage” to another man ??? "

I'll have to be a bit dense here on your question..are you asking which men had multiple wives? David? Solomon?

[Colofornian]

Elsie, Are you intellectually honest enough to admit that God has in the past condoned polygamy in the case of at least Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And that he is the same God yesterday, today and forever?

Do you realize, Teppe, that NO ONE claimed Isaac was a polygamist until Joseph Smith came along?

That alone should clue you in to be suspect to Smith's so-called "revelations." Isaac had one wife, Rebekah.

[Tennessee Nana]

Well, if Smith had sex with MARRIED women outside of his own plural marriage, he would have been in deep doodoo in the years of early Judaism.
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Well, since Smith had sex with MARRIED women and UNMARRIED women inside and outside of his own plural marriage, he WAS in deep doodoo in the years of early American legalism.

[Tennessee Nana]

Mag: Well, if Smith had sex with MARRIED women outside of his own plural marriage, he would have been in deep doodoo in the years of early Judaism

Nana: “Name a married woman “in the days of early Judasim” who was also in a “plural marriage” to another man ??? “
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Oh so you were just saying that Joey Smith would have been in trouble back during early Judaism but it was alright during 1825-1844 ?? during his grown up life time ???

[magritte]

Nana, I’m not interested in “The Book of Mormon” or the like. The roots of polygamy interest me, and since there is a bit of misinformation on this particular anti-Mormon thread, I dropped some background on biblical polygamy...it gives some context and may help lurkers get a less narrow perspective than some on the thread have...magritte

[teppe]

I believe that I already stated that fact in post #27 of this thread to you.

A simple apology for your inability to read would suffice.

[magritte]

Ah, now I gotcha. In 1825-44, Smith had a plural marriage, I assume? If he confined himself to sex within that plural marriage, in Moses time he would have be fine. As I indicated earlier, polygamy fell out of favor socially, but was considered by Jewish scholars “technically” okay...

[Colofornian]

Man, I hope you didn’t pull a muscle with this stretch of an article

What? You didn't catch the speaker's comment re: "... ridding life of perfectionism"???

You think spiritual perfectionism isn't in some way connected to overall perfectionism? You somehow think Mormon women keep their perfectionisms all hermetically sealed?

According to Mormon writings, what makes you "worthy?" Your perfection (3 Nephi 12:48; see also Mt. 5:48)

[Whereas, in contrast, a good definition of a "Christian" is someone already perfect in the Father's eyes thru Jesus sacrificial death (Heb. 10:14) -- where His perfect righteousness is substituted for our imperfect righteousness. (1 Cor. 1:30). Heb. 10:14 ...because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.]

Just to be sure, I looked up "worthiness" (a key Lds concept) in the 1977 "Topical Guide to the Scriptures of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" published by church-owned Deseret Publishers.

I found verses like Doctrine & Covenants 59:4: "And they shall also be crowned with blessings from above, yea, and with commandments not a few, and with revelations in their time--they that are faithful and diligent before me."

"Commandments not a few"? -- sounds like a long checklist to me.

I then looked at the 1979 "Topical Guide" in the Lds version of its KJV -- and turned to the "worthiness" entry there: It tells me right up top its related to the concept of "qualifying for" & then proceeds to verses like D&C 31:5: "Therefore, thrust in your sickle with all your soul, and your sins are forgiven you, and you shall be laden with sheaves upon your back, for the laborer is worthy of his hire. Wherefore, your family shall live."

Ah. There it is: The Mormon "strategy." Don't "trust" for your salvation, "thrust in your sickle"

So it sounds like the Mormon god wants plenty of soul labor -- paid labor -- spiritual hirelings -- earned labor for salvation. No free gifts here. No grace here. Just follow the rules, ma'am.

Indeed, the LDS are the "rules oriented" ones: The purity and perfection we seek is unattainable without this subjection of unworthy, ungodlike urges and the corresponding encouragement of their opposites. We certainly cannot expect the rules to be easier for us than for the Son of God... (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 28)

Just look @ all the "rule extensions" Lds have imposed upon their followers in order to make it to the highest degree of afterlife:
(1) You have to be obedient to all the commandments & ordinances of the Mormon god
(2) You have to tithe -- what Lds reference as the "Law of consecration"
(3) You have to obey the "Word of Wisdom" -- not drink coffee, etc.
(4) You have to get married -- sorry, no never-married single people allowed
(5) You have to have as many children as possible
(6) You have to perform temple work for the dead
(7) You have to perform endowments essential for this highest degree of salvation
(8) You have to be a member of the right church (Lds)
(9) You have to receive & perform the rites and ordinances established by that church
(10)You have to have Joseph Smith's consent to enter into your highest afterlife

That is 19th-20th-21st century legalism!

[Colofornian]

I believe that I already stated that fact in post #27 of this thread to you.

Yes, you implied it in post #27...but then you came right back around and implied he was a polygamist to Elsie in #132...I think posters can read 132 as it stands, right?

[magritte]

If true, Smith was incorrect on Isaac. If I recall, Isaac’s son Jacob had a few wives, maybe 4. Smith doesn’t seem like much of an “Old Testament” scholar and could have easily mixed them up.

[Tennessee Nana]

Mag: Well, if Smith had sex with MARRIED women outside of his own plural marriage, he would have been in deep doodoo in the years of early Judaism
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Yes polygamy which is adultery was never acceptable in early Judaism or at any time by the God of the Judeo-Christan Bible...

The Torah speaks against polygamy...

The Ten Commandments include a prohibition against adultery (Exodus 20:15), defined later in the book of Leviticus (20:10), along with the stipulation that both “the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.” (Rabbi Ismar Schorsch is chancellor of the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York.)

According to the Torah, God commanded that the woman be brought to the tabernacle and forced to drink a potion, administered by the priest, that would render her deformed and infertile if guilty (Numbers 5:11-31) (Rabbi Ismar Schorsch is chancellor of the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York.)

Josephus the Jesish historian, speaks against polygamy..

“. . Herodias, their sister, was married to Herod [Philip], the son of Herod the Great, who was born of Mariamne, the daughter of Simon the high priest, who had a daughter, Salome; after whose birth Herodias took upon her to confound the laws of our country, and divorce herself from her husband while he was alive, and was married to Herod [Antipas], her husband’s brother by the father’s side; he was tetrarch of Galilee;” (Josephus, The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, chapter 5:)

[Tennessee Nana]

In 1825-44, Smith had a plural marriage, I assume?
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Nope

Joey Smith didnt stop at only one adulterous affair...

He had at least FORTY...

with children as young as 13...

and at least ELEVEN married women...

and a few of his own adopted daughters...

Joey Smith wasnt particular...

He was your common or garden variet male whore...

Joey Smith considered himself a regular Casanava...

entiltled to lots of one night stands...

He carried on his illict affairs like a Csanova also...

secret rendevous, the thrill of the chase and seduction...

even under the eyes and roof of his own legal wife...

Yes Joey Smith wrote the original Playboy...

[magritte]

Hmmmm, gonna be hard to convince me that the Torah speaks against polygamy when I know that it doesn't. As I explained earlier, polygamy was neither condoned or prohibited in the early days and was not considered adultery...even Leviticus 17:17 talked about "not too many wives" (I think 18 was considered the max, don't quote me though, obviously Solomon's 700 wives was over the limit!)

[restornu]

All faiths say a lot of things about other faiths but they don’t try to stop them from being a citizen or from finding work or set them up to be burn at the stake!

October 1553 Servetus was burned at the stake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus

Tyndale was tried for heresy, strangled and burnt at the stake. The heretical Tyndale Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

[magritte]

Back to the article ! I actually read the article before commenting on the thread..."ridding life of perfectionism"...

"Her advice included: breaking down large projects into bite-sized, doable pieces, focusing on what can be controlled, letting go of what cannot be controlled and ridding life of perfectionism."

She's obviously talking about the tasks in her household and the rigors of everyday life. Other than a few references to prayer and speaking with a bishop, this is a very generic article about the stress of modern day. The only religious point was at the end.

Keeping an eternal perspective helps as well along with prayer, Meeker said. "With the Lord's help, we're equal to any task."

As a Christian, can you agree with her on this last sentence?

[Tennessee Nana]

You sent me a FReepmail instead of answering me here in the open thread ???

Why did you do that ???

If its worth saying it should be worth posting in the open thread..

Please do not send me any more FMs...

I only accept them from my FRiends..

Heres your unsolicited stealth mail back and my answer...
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Re: Things Mormon women can do to reduce stress (like staying off this thread? LOL)

From magritte | 05/06/2010 12:41:30 PM PDT replied

Hey, here’s something interesting that Maimonides put together a long time ago. A lot of it seems odd now, but the basics are true words to live by...

http://www.aish.com/jl/m/48945081.html

Cheers !

John H
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What does that site have on the words of Maimonides on polygamy...

Please poet the words, quotes etc...

I dont open strange LINKs...

Thank you..

Tennessee Nana

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[magritte]

I sent that to ya so you could look at it at your leisure...the 613 Commandments is one of the greatest religious writings of all-time and I thought it would be interesting to you...

Obviously not. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water...magritte