Posted on 04/28/2010 8:49:01 PM PDT by GonzoII
Richard Packham
If you are investigating Mormonism (the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" or "LDS Church"), you are probably studying it in private meetings in your home with missionaries from that church.
WHAT THE MISSIONARIES WILL NOT TELL YOU
Until recently, the missionaries were required to present Mormonism in six "discussions", which were a series of memorized sales talks. They are now encouraged simply to "follow the spirit" in their presentations. The basic message and approach, however, is still essentially the same. A thorough, thoughtful and balanced discussion of each of the six "official" lessons as the missionaries formerly presented them to investigators is at http://www.lds4u.com, together with the techniques and strategies which the missionaries are instructed to use. (The actual texts of the discussions were also on this site at one time, but the Mormon church threatened the webmaster with a lawsuit, and he removed them; click on "next" at each window to read a summary and commentary.)
Here is a summary of important facts about the Mormon church, its doctrine, and its history that the missionaries will probably not tell you. We are not suggesting that they are intentionally deceiving you --most of the young Mormons serving missions for the church are not well educated in the history of the church or in modern critical studies of the church. They probably do not know the all the facts themselves. They have been trained, however, to give investigators "milk before meat," that is, to postpone revealing anything at all that might make an investigator hesitant, even if it is true. But you should be aware of these facts before you commit yourself.
Each of the following facts has been substantiated by thorough historical scholarship. And this list is by no means exhaustive!
The "First Vision" story in the form presented to you was unknown until 1838, eighteen years after its alleged occurrence and almost ten years after Smith had begun his missionary efforts. The oldest (but quite different) version of the vision is in Smith's own handwriting, dating from about 1832 (still at least eleven years afterwards), and says that only one personage, Jesus Christ, appeared to him. It also mentions nothing about a revival. It also contradicts the later account as to whether Smith had already decided that no church was true. Still a third version of this event is recorded as a recollection in Smith's diary, fifteen years after the alleged vision, where one unidentified "personage" appeared, then another, with a message implying that neither was the Son. They were accompanied by many "angels," which are not mentioned in the official version you have been told about. Which version is correct, if any? Why was this event, now said by the church to be so important, unknown for so long?
Careful study of the religious history of the locale where Smith lived in 1820 casts doubt on whether there actually was such an extensive revival that year as Smith and his family later described as associated with the "First Vision." The revivals in 1817 and 1824 better fit what Smith described later.
In 1828, eight years after he supposedly had been told by God himself to join no church, Smith applied for membership in a local Methodist church. Other members of his family had joined the Presbyterians.
Contemporaries of Smith consistently described him as something of a confidence man, whose chief source of income was hiring out to local farmers to help them find buried treasure by the use of folk magic and "seer stones." Smith was actually tried in 1826 on a charge of money-digging. It is interesting that none of his critics seemed to be aware of his claim to have been visited by God in 1820, even though in his 1838 account he claimed that he had suffered "great persecution" for telling people of his vision.
The only persons who claimed to have actually seen the gold plates were eleven close friends of Smith (many of them related to each other). Their testimonies are printed in the front of every copy of the Book of Mormon. No disinterested third party was ever allowed to examine them. They were retrieved by the angel at some unrecorded point. Most of the witnesses later abandoned Smith and left his movement. Smith then called them "liars."
Smith produced most of the "translation" not by reading the plates through the Urim and Thummim (described as a pair of sacred spectacles), but by gazing at the same "seer stone" he had used for treasure hunting. He would place the stone into his hat, and then cover his face with it. For much of the time he was dictating, the gold plates were not even present, but in a hiding place.
The detailed history and civilization described in the Book of Mormon does not correspond to anything found by archaeologists anywhere in the Americas. The Book of Mormondescribes a civilization lasting for a thousand years, covering both North and South America, which was familiar with horses, elephants, cattle, sheep, wheat, barley, steel, wheeled vehicles, shipbuilding, sails, coins, and other elements of Old World culture. But no trace of any of these supposedly very common things has ever been found in the Americas of that period. Nor does the Book of Mormonmention many of the features of the civilizations which really did exist at that time in the Americas. The LDS church has spent millions of dollars over many years trying to prove through archaeological research that the Book of Mormonis an accurate historical record, but they have failed to produce any convincing pre-columbian archeological evidence supporting the Book of Mormon story. In addition, whereas the Book of Mormonpresents the picture of a relatively homogeneous people, with a single language and communication between distant parts of the Americas, the pre-columbian history of the Americas shows the opposite: widely disparate racial types (almost entirely east Asian - definitely not Semitic, as proven by recent DNA studies), and many unrelated native languages, none of which are even remotely related to Hebrew or Egyptian.
The people of the Book of Mormonwere supposedly devout Jews observing the Law of Moses, but in the Book of Mormonthere is almost no trace of their observance of Mosaic law or even an accurate knowledge of it.
Although Joseph Smith said that God had pronounced the completed translation of the plates as published in 1830 "correct," many changes have been made in later editions. Besides thousands of corrections of poor grammar and awkward wording in the 1830 edition, other changes have been made to reflect subsequent changes in some of the fundamental doctrine of the church. For example, an early change in wording modified the 1830 edition's acceptance of the doctrine of the Trinity, thus allowing Smith to introduce his later doctrine of multiple gods. A more recent change (1981) replaced "white" with "pure," apparently to reflect the change in the church's stance on the "curse" of the black race.
Joseph Smith said that the Book of Mormoncontained the "fulness of the gospel." However, its teaching on many doctrinal subjects has been ignored or contradicted by the present LDS church, and many doctrines now said by the church to be essential are not even mentioned there. Examples are the church's position on the nature of God, the Virgin Birth, the Trinity, polygamy, Hell, priesthood, secret organizations, the nature of Heaven and salvation, temples, proxy ordinances for the dead, and many other matters.
Many of the basic historical notions found in the Book of Mormon had appeared in print already in 1825, just two years before Smith began producing the Book of Mormon, in a book called View of the Hebrews, by Ethan Smith (no relation) and published just a few miles from where Joseph Smith lived. A careful study of this obscure book led one LDS church official (the historian B. H. Roberts, 1857-1933) to confess that the evidence tended to show that the Book of Mormonwas not an ancient record, but concocted by Joseph Smith himself, based on ideas he had read in the earlier book.
The Evangelization Station
P.O. Box 267
Angels Camp, California, 95222, USA
Telephone: 209-728-5598
E-mail: evangelization@earthlink.net
www.evangelizationstation.com
Pamphlet 529
Direct TV, that would make sense. I googled it and couldn’t find anything.
Perhaps: Dirty Rotten Trash Talking Vapidness?
I didn’t think of the ‘persecution’ angle.
I love when the LDS pull the “all faiths have some truth” ploy. YEAH, Right! If they did then there wouldn’t have been a need for a ‘restoration’, just another ‘reformation’.
As stated that many converts also bring with them bagage
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Resty, WHY are you using the JoD as a source? I thought that wasn’t doctrine?
Honey, it wasn’t the lowly european converts it was JOSEPH SMITH and your other leaders. So, it is disingenous at best to say that the LDS dissing of the Catholic church is ‘old folk lore’.
Your church was built upon trashing Christianity and Micheal Ash’s spin is NOT LDS doctrine nor is it what has been taught for the last 150+ years.
Also
The disconnect from reality is a amazing.
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I is the only way they can keep faith in the LDS church. The emperor has no clothes
Oh please stop I heard those folk lores about the Catholic church floating around when I was in the mainstream religion for 30 years!
A few mainstreamer were using a book called the Two Babylon against the Catholics even here on RF in the early 2000’s
“WHY are you using the JoD as a source? I thought that wasn’t doctrine?”
I am not using as doctrine just to show some still held on to views after all those were converts from the mainstream faith and one don’t lose their bagage over night it is a work in progress!
You have not been around to grow how do I know what your bagage was when you were a member!
You have not been around to grow how do I know what your bagage was when you were a member!
As I’ve noted in other writings, the Church was not restored in a cultural vacuum. ~ As I’ve noted in other writings, the Church was not restored in a cultural vacuum.
No resty, what was/is your point about the bringing in the whole Catholic bit to begin with.
So, your apostles are folklorists? Here you go...
“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the Lord denounces... as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. If any penitent believer desires to obtain forgiveness of sins through baptism, let him beware of having any thing to do with the churches of apostate Christendom, lest he perish in the awful plagues and judgments, denounced against them. The only persons among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who have authority from Jesus Christ to administer any gospel ordinance are those called and authorized among the Latter-day Saints. Before the restoration of the church of Christ to the earth in the year 1830, there have been no people on the earth for many generations possessing authority from God to minister gospel ordinances. We again repeat. Beware of the hypocritical false teachers and imposters of Babylon!
- Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255
“She is termed, in other places, by the same prophet, “The whore of all the earth,” making the nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Some three centuries ago there came out sortie excellent men, named Martin Lather, John Calvin and many others that might be mentioned, who protested against the wickedness and abominations of the Church wherein they had been educated, and of which they had been members. Because of their protestations against the mother Church they were called Protestants. They pronounced her the whore of all the earth; they declared that she had no authority, that she had none of the blessings and gifts which characterized the ancient Christians. They came out and established other Churches... But among all these Churches where are the characteristics of Zion? We hunt for them in vain.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses Vol. 14, p.346
The LDS still think of them as the great and abominable church.
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Stop with old world views which are not current today
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See ???
Joey Smith is parse...
Plus being a big fat embarassment...
ROFLMBO
Some little girls must have designed that bottom “fairy castle”
:)
Actually those pointy things look like some of the pagan temples you would see in India or some other Far East country...
Nephi sailed from Calcutta ???
You have not been around to grow how do I know what your bagage was when you were a member!
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How do we know what your bagage is now you are ???
You have not been around to grow how do I know what your bagage was when you were a member!
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So baggage is part of being a member of mormonism...
They obeyed God to the best of their ability, when they lived up to the measure of truth He gave unto them. But the Lord in this day hath spoken unto the people and commanded that they should obey the fullness of the everlasting gospel. (Charles A. Callis., Conference Report [April 1909], 19.)
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So did Charles Callis have lots of wives ???
Was he living the restored “new and everlasting covenant” of polygamy in 1909 ???
Early Saints brought their world views with them.
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Yeah and when thewy got to Utah they had those virtues knocked out of them and were forced to take on the filth of mormonism...
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