Posted on 04/22/2010 9:55:26 PM PDT by Salvation
SOMEone wants vaildation the MORMONs can be called ‘christian’, too.
I can guarantee you that they ate the PASSOVER forty times while they wandered, even though it is not mentioned that they did.
14 "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD -a lasting ordinance. 15 For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel. 16 On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat—that is all you may do.
17 "Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread, because it was on this very day that I brought your divisions out of Egypt. Celebrate this day as a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. 18 In the first month you are to eat bread made without yeast, from the evening of the fourteenth day until the evening of the twenty-first day. 19 For seven days no yeast is to be found in your houses. And whoever eats anything with yeast in it must be cut off from the community of Israel, whether he is an alien or native-born. 20 Eat nothing made with yeast. Wherever you live, you must eat unleavened bread."
| Jos 5:12 | And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land; neither had the children of Israel manna any more; but they did eat of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year. |
| Jhn 6:49 | Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. |
Who?
I indeed do not have time to refer to your lengthy posts point by point. If it is your opinion that the scripture contradicts the structure of the Church that I outlined in my 76, kindly post it. It should not take a kilobyte of excerpts from dictionaries to do.
How did the Incarnation, sacrifice and Resurrection of Christ deceive anyone or contradict any law given by God? It is not a flippant question, please do not give flippant answers.
The English word "priest" is derived from the Greek word presbuteros, which is commonly rendered into Bible English as "elder" or "presbyter." The ministry of Catholic priests is that of the presbyters mentioned in the New Testament (Acts 15:6, 23). The Bible says little about the duties of presbyters, but it does reveal they functioned in a priestly capacity.
They were ordained by the laying on of hands (1 Tim. 4:14, 5:22), they preached and taught the flock (1 Tim. 5:17), and they administered sacraments (Jas. 5:13-15). These are the essential functions of the priestly office, so wherever the various forms of presbuteros appear--except, of course, in instances which pertain to the Jewish elders (Matt. 21:23, Acts 4:23)--the word may rightly be translated as "priest" instead of "elder" or "presbyter."
Episcopos arises from two words, epi (over) and skopeo (to see), and it means literally "an overseer"--we translate it as "bishop." The King James Version renders the office of overseer, episkopen, as "bishopric" (Acts 1:20). The role of the episcopos is not clearly defined in the New Testament, but by the beginning of the second century it had obtained a fixed meaning. There is early evidence of this refinement in ecclesiastical nomenclature in the writings of Ignatius of Antioch (d. A.D. 107), who wrote at length of the authority of bishops as distinct from presbyters and deacons (Epistle to the Magnesians 6:1, 13:1-2; Epistle to the Trallians 2:1-3; Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 8:1-2).
The New Testament tendency to use episcopos and presbuteros interchangeably is similar to the contemporary Protestant use of the term "minister" to denote various offices, both ordained and unordained (senior minister, music minister, youth minister). Similarly, the term diakonos is rendered both as "deacon" and as "minister" in the Bible, yet in Protestant churches the office of deacon is clearly distinguished from and subordinate to the office of minister.
In Acts 20:17-38 the same men are called presbyteroi (v. 17) and episcopoi (v. 28). Presbuteroi is used in a technical sense to identify their office of ordained leadership. Episcopoi is used in a non-technical sense to describe the type of ministry they exercised. This is how the Revised Standard Version renders the verses: "And from Miletus he [Paul] . . . called for the elders [presbuteroi]of the church. And when they came to him, he said to them . . . 'Take heed to yourselves and all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you guardians [episcopoi], to feed the church of the Lord.'"
In other passages it's clear that although men called presbuteroi ruled over individual congregations (parishes), the apostles ordained certain men, giving them authority over multiple congregations (dioceses), each with its own presbyters. These were endowed with the power to ordain additional presbyters as needed to shepherd the flock and carry on the work of the gospel. Titus and Timothy were two of those early episcopoi and clearly were above the office of presbuteros. They had the authority to select, ordain, and govern other presbyters, as is evidenced by Paul's instructions: "This is why I left you in Crete . . . that you might appoint elders in every town as I directed you" (Titus 1:5; cf. 1 Tim. 5:17-22).
Yes, and many of them are coming out of the RCC to join a real Biblical Christian church.
How I led Catholics Out of the Church
As Salvation already commented, the doors are always open for you to return home to the true Church, founded by Jesus Christ.
The eating of His Body and drinking of His Blood will result in salvation, according to Jesus. Many disciples could not accept this outright portrait of cannibalism and blood drinking, and left Him. Pretty explicit, I'd say.
I already did...you seem to have ignored it.
The English translation of "presbuteros" is Elder or overseer, not "priest". Your church's definition challenges all attempts to translate from one language to another. You make of a word whatever you want it to mean, and disregard its realy and true meaning. That is inexcusable and wrong.
And where in the Bible do you find that "the ministry of Catholic priests is that of the presbyters mentioned in the New Testament (Acts 15:6, 23)."? If you get that idea from the scripture you reference, man, you need to get a new pair of glasses! Or you need to learn to read!
Acts 15:6 --- "The apostles and elders met to consider this question."
Acts 15:23 -- "With them they sent the following Letter: 'The apostles and elders, your brothers, to the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia."
Do you do this to all the Scriptures to prove dogma? If so, well, you explain it to God.
They were ordained by the laying on of hands (1 Tim. 4:14, 5:22), they preached and taught the flock (1 Tim. 5:17), and they administered sacraments (Jas. 5:13-15). These are the essential functions of the priestly office, so wherever the various forms of presbuteros appear--except, of course, in instances which pertain to the Jewish elders (Matt. 21:23, Acts 4:23)--the word may rightly be translated as "priest" instead of "elder" or "presbyter."
This explanation is fraught with error and is very deceptive. As I said in response to your first statement, you need to get glasses or at least learn to read and understand what you read. Those lurking and reading these posts will surely see the truth of the matter (unless they were taught in the Catholic sect of Christianity what you are saying here). Sad, Oh so sad :-(
As Salvation already commented, the doors are always open for you to return home to the true Church, founded by Jesus Christ.
LOL! Now why in the world would I deny Christ and leave His assembly for your form of the church?
Loud Mime
The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:Greetings.
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul-- men who have risked their livesfor the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.
It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.You will do well to avoid these things.Farewell.
Again; this is what YOU'D say.
What is the Official Roman Catholic stance on it?
Is the BELEIVE in transubstanciation a a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION or not?
Oh I see. Sorry Loud Mime.
#86
They are no more 'christian' than the FLDS are MORMONs.
They are hoist on their own petard; tghe Hypocrits!
They are no more 'christian' than the FLDS are MORMONs.
They are hoist on their own petard; the Hypocrits!
Your choice.
Nothing special about my posts.
Actually, though, I was pointing out the lack of courtesy to respond to the posts of others, not myself, who had taken time to respond to Salvation, and the dump and run tactics used by several Catholics on their posts.
So ignore me, and others who question your dogma, you’re just proving my point.
It’s ok. I get passionate myself.
One thing to all my FRiends. I’m in constant dialogue with liberals. One of their principle disgusts with republican/rightwing/conservative politics is the energy of those who use religious scripture to support acts of government.
I use philosophy. Once they accept the philosophy, their ears and minds are opened for better communication.
Here we have Jesus apparently saying one thing and James apparently saying another. Scripture must be reconciled. I will look at James’ words through the prism of our Lord’s words. The Gospels are the highest pinnacle of God’s revelation to us.
So in answer, I might say that this was a temporary thing, done in this instance for these people, but not a permanent thing for the whole Church.
If you do not believe in the Sacrament of the Eucharist as the Church lays it out, then you seriously at odds with Scripture, Jesus’ words and Church’s teachings and your soul is imperilled.
That brings you outside of the Church and its teachings. Not where we are Christians are instructed to go. Does that mean that you will go to hell? That’s up to Jesus at the Judgement. The Church does not teach outside of its authority.
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