Posted on 04/22/2010 4:47:12 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
Edited on 04/22/2010 4:49:04 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
A Mexican resident who says he was sexually abused by a priest as a child is suing the Roman Catholic Cardinal of Los Angeles and Mexico's top-ranking Catholic cleric, alleging they aided and abetted the abuse by moving the priest between dioceses as allegations piled up against him.
(Excerpt) Read more at att.mw.cnn.com ...
No, when I mean “alter Christus” I write “alter Christus.”
The requirement for secrecy only applies to the INVESTIGATION concerning "delicts [offenses] against faith and more grave delicts both against morals and committed in the celebration of the sacraments". The pontifical secret does not prevent anyone from reporting crimes to civil authorities or others. It is no different to the secrecy involved in grand jury investigations. Thus in a civil criminal case I can accuse John Doe of being a criminal, and even report it to the New York Times, but I could not report what testimony I gave to the grand jury.
I hope that now that you have been corrected in this matter that you will have the honesty to recant your above statement.
That is not what "pontifical secret" means, and that is not the clear intention of the letter.
If it were, the Roman Catholic church would not be plagued by the hundreds of lawsuits now being filed.
The letter stressed the requirement for secrecy for all involved upon threat of excommunication.
Don't forget that CRIMEN SOLLICITATIONIS has never been rescinded. It is papal policy. Read it, particularly paragraphs 11, 13and 42a.
Yes, read paragraphs 11, 13, and 42a. Notice that paragraph 11 states:
each and everyone pertaining to the tribunal in any way or admitted to knowledge of the matters because of their office, is to observe the strictest ++7++ secret, which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office…Thus paragraph 11 applies only to members of the tribunal or those working in an official capacity in the case.
Paragraph 13 reads:
The oath of keeping the secret must be given in these cases also by the accusers or those denouncing [the priest] and the witnesses. To none of these, however, is there subjection to a censure, unless by chance toward these same persons some censure has been expressly threatened upon the person himself, for his accusation, his deposition or of his violation (Excussionis?) [of such] by act.Actually this gibberish should warn you that this is a poor translation. A better one is:
Accusers or denouncers and witnesses must also always give the oath of maintaining secrecy in these cases [i.e. trials]; none of these however are to be subject to censure, unless by chance some [censure] should expressly be threaten upon them in the very act of accusation, deposition or exculpation.The Latin is given here for your examination:
Iuramentum de secreto servando praestare hisce in causis semper debent etiam accusatores seu denuntiantes et testes; nulli tamen hi subiiciuntur censuarae, nisi forte aliqua in ipso accusationis, depositionis vel excussionis actu iidem expresse comminata fuerit.Thus the oath is only concerning the trial and the accusers are expressly exempt from any censure, excommunication or otherwise.
Paragraph 42a reads:
if it is evident that the denunciation totally lacks a foundation, he should order this to be declared in the Acts, and the documents of the accusation should be destroyed;The records of the trial are to be destroyed if the defendant is found NOT GUILTY. What a shocking proposal.
I would also refer you to paragraph 1:
The crime of solicitation takes place when a priest tempts a penitent, whoever that person is, either in the act of sacramental confession, whether before or immediately afterwards, whether on the occasion or the pretext of confession, whether even outside the times for confession in the confessional or [in a place] other than that [usually] designated for the hearing of confessions or [in a place] chosen for the simulated purpose of hearing a confession.This instruction is only concerned with solicitation with Confession, not every charge against a priest. It is the very nature of the circumstance of these crimes that special care must be taken, for both the accused priest and the penitent who is making the charges.
lol. Yeah. That's the ticket. Blame it on the "translation."
We've seen that one before.
A lot.
BEFORE they are given to the police.
Get the problem? The church makes everyone swear to secrecy. The church decides the victim is lying and the priest is innocent.
The records and all evidence submitted by the victim during the "trial by the church" ARE DESTROYED and no civil authority sees any of them.
Why do you think the Vatican and Ratzinger are being accused of obstruction of justice over and over and over?
We've seen that one before.
A lot.
I gave you the Latin so that you could check my translation. If you think that it is faulty then correct it.
Beyond the question of the translation, I have (from the translation in the link you gave) pointed out that oath only applied to the trial. Furthermore, even in the translation you gave, it states:
To none of these [accusers, denouncers or witnesses], however, is there subjection to a censureWhy do you persist with falsehood. In my Bible "Thou shalt not give false witness against thy neighbor" is one of the Ten Commandments.
Yes. This is about what happens in Confession. The seal of Confession is absolute. I am sorry if as a non-Catholic you do not understand that. Furthermore, there is nothing preventing the penitent from going to the police. They would then have their own investigation.
If it was as you say, there wouldn't be the hundreds of court cases now facing the Vatican.
These secret Vatican instructions were so secret the bishops couldn't even talk about receiving the letter from Ratzinger, let alone what was in it.
Stop defending the indefensible and clean house.
Now that's interesting. Ratzinger being a 14-year-old Hitler Youth is excused due to his tender age.
But a 14-year-old who is sexually abused by a pederast priest is a consenting adult.
I didn’t see you come to my defense when your pal TSGT called for the molestation of my Catholic Children or anyone on your ping list and you want me to believe you and your ping list friends care about the sexual abuse of Catholic children. It also amazes me how familiar you people are with homosexual groups and all disagree that the perpetrators are homosexuals.
Some things are complicated. You personally do not know the TRUTH but go on anyway then try to interpret canon law talk because of your bias propels you to go forward -perhaps this will help: Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
Deuteronomy 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deuteronomy 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that SOWETH DISCORD among brethren.
Proverbs 12:17 He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Proverbs 14:25 A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.
Proverbs 19:5 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.
Proverbs 19:9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.
Proverbs 19:28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the wicked devoureth iniquity.
Proverbs 21:28 A false witness shall perish: but the man that heareth speaketh constantly.
Proverbs 24:28 Be not a witness against thy neighbour without cause; and deceive not with thy lips.
Proverbs 25:18 A man that beareth false witness against his neighbour is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow.
Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Don’t bother he knows what he knows and embraces his ignorance lovingly.
Please expound on your knowledge of Canon law. I would love to hear it. Crickets.
Oh hell I can’t post what I wanted cause the mod has better things to do.
Look for pork in the treetops.
Not only do I care about the physical and mental well-being of Roman Catholic children, but I also am aware of the fact that many of the children of today who have been sexually molested by RC priests will become the homosexuals of tomorrow.
Thus the perpetuation of this terrible sin.
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