Posted on 04/20/2010 7:56:29 PM PDT by delacoert
VATICAN CITY, JULY 17, 2001 (Zenit.org).- Prompted by questions about Mormon practices, the Vatican recently confirmed that the sect´s baptism is invalid.
Last month the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith noted the invalidity of the Mormons´ baptism given their misconception of the Trinity and, consequently, the identity of Christ.
Father Luis Ladaria, a theologian at the Pontifical Gregorian University, explained today in L´Osservatore Romano the Church´s view about Mormon baptism.
"The baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," the theologian said, "differ essentially as regards faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name baptism is conferred and, at the same time, in regard to Christ, who instituted it."
Father Ladaria pointed out that even non-Catholics can administer baptism validly, as the minister of the sacrament is, in fact, Christ himself. But the baptizer must do so in the name of the Trinity and "with the intention of doing what the Church does," he added.
Joseph Smith founded the Mormons in New York state in 1830. He was inspired to find the place were golden tablets were placed, which expressed the revelations of the prophet Mormon, written by him and his son Moroni. Mormonism is a "sacred history" rewritten in America, in which God revealed the "latter-day saints."
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith´s response is based on research requested by the U.S. bishops.
Father Ladaria said the formula used by the Mormons for baptism states that, "having received Christ´s mandate, I baptize you in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
But there is no real invocation of the Trinity, the theologian said, because, for the Mormons, the "Father," "Son" and "Holy Spirit" are not the three persons in which the one divinity subsists, but three gods who form a divinity.
The term divinity itself has no "substantial" content, because, according to this Mormon concept, divinity has come into existence given that the three gods have decided to unite and form the divinity to bring about the salvation of man. This divinity and man share the same nature and are "substantially the same," according to Mormon belief.
Such divergence in doctrine implies, Father Landaria said, that the Mormon minister does not have the intention, when baptizing, of doing what the Catholic Church does when it confers baptism.
You’ll not classify me. I do find it ironic how every religion thread devolves into scientific classification of every poster. Once you’ve got the egg in the crate their easier to smash, no?
So this looks like the end of the road. Thanks for the very little information about your church. I was hoping for more and better.
You’ll not classify me. I do find it ironic how every religion thread devolves into scientific classification of every poster. Once you’ve got the egg in the crate their easier to smash, no? So this looks like the end of the road. Thanks for the very little information about your church. I was hoping for more and better.I am not trying to 'classify' you, I ask YOU to identify YOUR sect, denomination or belief. Mormon's for example claim to be Christian but are not. You claim to be Christian, are you? If so how much of classical, orthodox Christian belief to you identify as what you believe and how much do you deny or are ignorant of?
As for information, had you bothered to follow the link I provided, every last question you have is answered there. Your faux outrage is amusing.
Narses has given you the correct answers, or pointed you where you can find them.
Baptism CAN be performed by an lay person with correct intent, matter and form. Normally that would only be done if there is some good reason to do so--otherwise, it would be done in church by a priest with sponsors.
Also, the Catholic Church keeps records of baptism, so it should be reported to the baptized person's parish church (possibly chosen after baptism) and entered into the records. And the priest might decide to do a conditional baptism in addition, to be sure that everything was valid.
Marriage is the other sacrament that can be performed by lay persons. In fact, the bride and groom administer the sacrament to each other with the ring and the words, and the priest is said to preside over the sacrament. Non-Catholics also can validly marry, but not sacramentally. Catholics normally should marry in church at Mass, presided over by a priest, and properly witnessed, but as with baptism can marry one another privately if there is a sufficient reason or emergency, and then have it confirmed or preferably performed again in church with a priest and witnesses. At least, that is my understanding.
Baptising a dead person makes about as much sense as putting a tire patch on your tire rim after the tire has shredded and blown-away.
Yep. My Dad is 86. I just found his Baptism cert from 86 years ago, and promptly tacked it to his wall. Same with the Confirmation cert.
True to type.
Really fascinating. Thanks.
As regards marriage, are non-Catholic marriages those not sacramentally married, should those also be remarried with a priest and witnesses?
I think that marriage can be pretty complicated, because it is both a civil and a religious institution, and because the Catholic Church would probably recognize the validity of most Protestant marriages, provided that the proper words were used and there was a real intention to marry.
In the words of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, “With this ring, I thee wed, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” Sometimes additional language is added or interposed, and there are vows, (in sickness and in health, etc.), but I’d say that the essential elements are probably the ring (at least one, for the woman), the stated intention to wed on the part of both parties, and the invocation of the Trinity.
A valid previous marriage would be recognized, and any children would be considered legitimate, but a couple might want to have a second wedding for the benefits of the sacrament. That would be something to discuss with the priest.
So what distinguishes the sacrament part from the valid marriage part? A priest and the witnesses? Are the witnesses especially ordained to the task of witnessing marriages or are they just Catholic friends of the bride and or groom?
Witnesses are necessary because marriage is a public act, a civil matter, as well as religious. It’s somewhat similar to having a last will and testament notarized, so there is sufficient evidence that the person signed it freely and of his own will, in case any doubt arises.
Marriage, among other things, concerns such matters as legitimacy of the children and rights of inheritance, so it has legal consequences. In an emergency, I believe two people can marry without witnesses or a priest, but they would want to formalize it at the first opportunity.
This, at least, was the case in earlier times. If the persons died now without formalizing it, it would be difficult to prove when it came to questions of inheritance, etc. But in the eyes of God it could be valid.
Indeed. How about an honest answer, what denomination are you?
Thanks.
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