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Nifonging the Catholic Church
me ^ | April 18, 2010 | vanity

Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne

I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.

Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.

I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!

Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!

Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!

What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?

Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?

Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: denialnotrivernegypt; excuses; falseaccusations; koolaidcatholics; moralrot; moredeflection; nifong
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To: Judith Anne
You know, not too awful long ago the Catholic Church was the media's darling in their war against Fundamentalist Protestantism. You know, Catholics are the "good" chr*stians. They're intellectual, they're historically victims of ethnic prejudice, they don't interpret the Bible literally, and they believe in evolution. And some Catholics absolutely ate it up.

How does it feel to be on the receiving end?

81 posted on 04/19/2010 7:45:28 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Judith Anne
You know, not too awful long ago the Catholic Church was the media's darling in their war against Fundamentalist Protestantism. You know, Catholics are the "good" chr*stians. They're intellectual, they're historically victims of ethnic prejudice, they don't interpret the Bible literally, and they believe in evolution. And some Catholics absolutely ate it up.

I remember that coverage.

It lauded the types of Catholics that Catholic FReepers despise ("Cafeteria Catholics") (You know the type: heavy on social justice; light on doctrine; birth control: OK, after all, it should be your conscience that decides; abortion: not for me, but I don't want to impose...you know, the "good" Catholics)

How does it feel to be on the receiving end?

Typical day.

I always figure that the devil wouldn't bother if we weren't doing something right.

82 posted on 04/19/2010 7:52:15 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: caww

Bingo!


83 posted on 04/19/2010 7:58:59 AM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Judith Anne

** Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict,**

Seriously, this happened in my state.

From a juror: “We know that he is a Catholic priest, now let’s find him guilty.”

Even though all the dates from the state records (he worked in penal instisution) proved that the priest was NOT even present at that institution or incident on the dates the accusers specified that the sexual abuse occurred.


84 posted on 04/19/2010 8:09:53 AM PDT by Salvation ( "With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: markomalley
It lauded the types of Catholics that Catholic FReepers despise ("Cafeteria Catholics")

It isn't just "cafeteria Catholics" who believe in evolution and Biblical criticism. In fact, plenty of Catholic FReepers do as well.

85 posted on 04/19/2010 8:18:53 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
It isn't just "cafeteria Catholics" who believe in evolution and Biblical criticism. In fact, plenty of Catholic FReepers do as well.

True.

But your original stipulation didn't make it seem that this was your specific point:

They're intellectual, they're historically victims of ethnic prejudice, they don't interpret the Bible literally, and they believe in evolution.

I maintain my original contention: the Catholics loved by the media were the "cafeteria Catholics." Orthodox Catholics have never been in vogue in the MSM.

86 posted on 04/19/2010 8:34:44 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Judith Anne

There is no doubt that Priests did molest children. These are not allegations, they are proven facts, in many time confessed to or adjudicated.


87 posted on 04/19/2010 8:37:54 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Alex Murphy
Honestly, who's claiming to be too good for what?

ROTFLOL.

Apparently (paraphrasing William Munny) "honesty's got nothing to do with it."

88 posted on 04/19/2010 9:42:08 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: markomalley
I maintain my original contention: the Catholics loved by the media were the "cafeteria Catholics." Orthodox Catholics have never been in vogue in the MSM.

Except when the MSM wants to discredit YEC or Biblical literalism.

89 posted on 04/19/2010 9:44:57 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Judith Anne; Alex Murphy; count-your-change
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused?

In the case of pederast priests, they're on their knees thanking God they don't send their children to parochial schools.

90 posted on 04/19/2010 9:56:07 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Except when the MSM wants to discredit YEC or Biblical literalism

Can you give me an example or three where the MSM has done so?

I honestly don't remember seeing such.

91 posted on 04/19/2010 10:03:52 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: will of the people
The alleged victims are Catholic

The alleged perpetrators are Catholic

The alleged cover-ups were allegedly done by Catholics

The alleged culture was Catholic

The alleged decisions to move the priests around was Catholic

The payouts (they’re not alleged) have been Catholic.

What is it- twenty some dioceses in bankruptcy over this? A billion plus dollars or some such figure. And that’s just in the US?

Oh, and the blind defense is by.....wait for it.... Catholics!

Those dastardly clever Protestants.

lol. AMEN!

Excellent post - although the U.S. payout is over 2 billion dollars...so far.

92 posted on 04/19/2010 10:04:35 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: markomalley
Except when the MSM wants to discredit YEC or Biblical literalism

Can you give me an example or three where the MSM has done so?

I honestly don't remember seeing such.

If you think the MSM is YEC or Biblically literalist, you must live in a different universe.

The MSM "went ape" when JPII declared evolution "more than a hypothesis" and again when Jesuit George Coyne claimed that G-d did not design him.

93 posted on 04/19/2010 10:16:45 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
If you think the MSM is YEC or Biblically literalist, you must live in a different universe.

Don't worry. I live in the same universe as you do. But if you think the MSM are supportive of orthodoxy, you haven't been paying attention.

As for JPII supporting evolution, I remember that the MSM got the reporting on that completely wrong. IIRC, they indicated that he, all of a sudden, became a Darwinist.

In fact, in the speech (Italian version) that generated the MSM reports, he said, Consequently, theories of evolution which, in accordance with the philosophies inspiring them, consider the spirit as emerging from the forces of living matter or as a mere epiphenomenon of this matter, are incompatible with the truth about man. Nor are they able to ground the dignity of the person.

While that does not make him a six day creationist, he was far, far from a Darwinist.

Unfortunately, Fr. Coyne was unable to grasp that concept and he was fired from his position at the Vatican Observatory for that little error in judgment.

See what I'm saying?

94 posted on 04/19/2010 10:46:51 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley
See what I'm saying?

Of course. YEC and Biblical literalism have no relation whatsoever to Catholic "orthodoxy." Which is why the MSM preferred the Catholics to Fundamentalist Protestants for so long.

Remember the Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals? Catholics were laughing up their sleeves at such a clownish religion and patting themselves on the back for being so "respectable."

You know what they say about payback.

95 posted on 04/19/2010 10:50:57 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Of course. YEC and Biblical literalism have no relation whatsoever to Catholic "orthodoxy." Which is why the MSM preferred the Catholics to Fundamentalist Protestants for so long.

No they didn't. They liked "Kennedy" Catholics, "McCarrick" Catholics, "O'Brien" Catholics, "Küng" Catholics and so on. In fact, they still do. I don't seem to recall them ever liking the Chaput kind of Catholic, the Tilton kind of Catholic, the Donahue (Bill, not Phil) kind of Catholic, etc. And I certainly remember all of the hand wringing once they figured out that JPII was not a Communist, despite having come from Communist Poland...and I absolutely remember them screaming about Ratzinger, both before and after he was elected.

Remember the Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals? Catholics were laughing up their sleeves at such a clownish religion and patting themselves on the back for being so "respectable."

Yes I do. I remember both of them quite vividly. And let's not forget about Robert Tilton in that mix, as well.

You know what they say about payback.

Yeah I do. Although I do not believe in Karma.

But having said that, I do believe that this is God's purgation being given to His Church now due to the lack of fidelity of Her members.

Plenty of examples in the OT to show how He did so for Israel. Plenty of warnings in the NT about what would happen if we grow lax. Fortunately, God is more faithful than we are.

96 posted on 04/19/2010 11:04:51 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Too true, too true.


97 posted on 04/19/2010 11:57:10 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Judith Anne; narses; Steelfish

One thing is for certain. These Fred Phelps types who have so much hatred and malice in their hearts expose themselves on a daily basis for what they are, and they are no Christians.

It really is a shame that the few that are here are a stain on the Religion Forum and Free Republic because there is no place for hatred and bigotry in the conservative movement.


98 posted on 04/19/2010 12:34:27 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: Judith Anne

“I see you haven’t been around FR long...check the Religion Forum for the last month, and count the anti-Catholic articles.

I didn’t dream this up out of nowhere.”

Actually I’ve been on FR for years, just on a different account.

And I’ve seen plenty of insults of Protestants, too. Just yesterday I was reading a thread insulting Martin Luther, a commenter talked about how he ripped six books out of the Bible and tried to take out more, etc.

Anyway, you didn’t respond to the list of many non-Catholics who are assumed guilty around here. Don’t you see that there are plenty of them who are assumed guilty, too?

I personally believe that the vast majority of priests are good men who are trying to do good. And that the RC church members have done a lot of good in this world. So I am not on a hunt.

It’s the issue of child molestation/abuse, not the issue of Catholicism, that gets most of us riled up. That’s my opinion.

Yes, when someone presents himself as particularly holy or set apart, as in a priest OR a minister OR a teacher, it rankles even more. Because of the hypocrisy.

But I think you are assuming an agenda too intensely. Debates about Catholicism/Protestantism will occur, particularly in the religion forum. Both sides can get accusatory and ugly. The child molestation issue is largely separate as I see it.


99 posted on 04/19/2010 12:54:28 PM PDT by Persevero (Ask yourself: "What does the Left want me to do?" Then go do the opposite.)
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To: Judith Anne; All
“The history of the Protestant Reformation and the Council of Trent (1545-1563) record the rampant corruption of the bishops and priests. It is not hyperbole to speculate that sexually and financially the Church is equally corrupt today”.
A.W. Richard Sipe. A Benedictine monk for 18 years and now in private practice, writing in the book, “Sin Against the Innocents” in the chapter titled, The Crisis of Sexual Abuse, page 67.

As for the accused priest in the article it was a VICAR FOR PRIESTS and CANON LAWYER THAT SAID “A CREDIBLE ALLEGATION OF SEXUAL ABUSE” had been made against him. TWICE.

It sounds more like “John” just caught.

100 posted on 04/19/2010 1:01:33 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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