Posted on 04/14/2010 3:08:51 PM PDT by NYer
This is so typical of the Japanese. To hear them tell it they were just a little tiny island country minding their own business when along came America and dropped two atomic bombs on them. And they have always dodged their guilt about starting a war with America and the atrocities they committed on peoples of Southeast Asia and yet they have the gall to demand forgiveness. How do you forgive a people who won’t admit to what they’ve done?
I’m not Jesus Christ.
btt
You assume that invasion would have been necessary.Why was invasion necessary? Without a Navy or Air Force, and having retreated to their own islands, what danger did Japan still present? The demand for Unconditional Surrender was not about saving American lives, but about the public's demand for revenge. In short, the use of nuclear weapons was a public relations decision, not a strategic decision.
Are you are aware that that Catholic morality has never permitted immoral acts in order for "good" to occur? You are free to justify these bombings all you like, but please refrain from improperly using Catholic teachings to make your case.
Many reasons: the American public was weary of war, and would not have tolerated a protracted wait for Japan to surrender; the Soviets were threatening to invade and occupy Hokkaidō, which would have led to a Korea-type standoff with the USSR (and probably another war); the militarist clique in Tokyo had to be completely subjugated to ensure a peaceful occupation; and for other reasons.
Plus they were all starving. The militarists in Tokyo could have held out for years. Meanwhile, millions of civilians would have literally starved to death.
Without a Navy or Air Force, and having retreated to their own islands, what danger did Japan still present?
Your knowledge of history is poor. Japan still had viable forces overseas (e.g. Korea and Manchuria) in August of 1945. According to Theodore F. Cook in Japan at War: An Oral History (1992), page 403, 3,527,000 Japanese military personnel were stationed outside of Japan at the time of surrender, with a further 4,335,500 in Japan, not including armed civilian auxiliaries.
The demand for Unconditional Surrender was not about saving American lives, but about the public's demand for revenge.
I disagree. The goal was to end the war as quickly as possible. If revenge had been the government's motive, we would have simply let the Japanese starve to death.
In short, the use of nuclear weapons was a public relations decision, not a strategic decision.
I disagree. It was intended as a veiled warning to Stalin, I suppose.
Are you are aware that that Catholic morality has never permitted immoral acts in order for "good" to occur?
Yes. For a Catholic, the end can never justify the means. Unfortunately, sometimes there is no choice but to use evil means in order to attain good ends. In such cases, those who employ the evil means should submit their acts to the judgment of Caesar and God. That's not fair, but that is reality.
You are free to justify these bombings all you like, but please refrain from improperly using Catholic teachings to make your case.
I'm not justifying anything. As I clearly and plainly said, the mass firebombing and nuclear attacks on Japan were immoral. All other options were immoral as well. Sometimes, good men are forced to make decisions in situations where no moral option exists. This is the tragedy of war.
Please re-read my post for comprehension.
They are showing you the outcome.
In what you wrote you also made some conjectures as to what would the Japanese do had they won the war, but that has nothing to do with the issue.
America won the war. That is a good thing. To that end, America bombed a city full of civilians intentionally. That was immoral means to that moral end. Catholic theology is against employing immoral means to a moral end.
It is not complicated.
By the way, Our Lady is not a deity.
One of my favorite prayers is that spoken by the Fatima angel:
O my God, I believe, I adore, I trust and I love you!
I beg pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not trust and do not love you.
Amen.
I guess someone didn’t like my comment.
I’ll start singing Kumbaya now and hope someone will save me when jackbooted killers come knocking on my door.
Madame, again, it’s not complicated. Had there been no Pearl Harbor, there would have been no Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And I disagree with you. The Catholic Church wasn’t doing the fighting, Americans were. You want to see ‘’outcome’’, then look at what Japan did. WHY do people you not look at that and only what America did? The bombings ended a war Japan started. Tough shit for them. It’s very easy to be so morally superior 65 years on, isn’t it? I’m a Catholic alright, but not a perfect one. Perhaps you fancy yourself that way? The war is over and no amount of second-guessing about the bombings is going to change the facts.
Do you do a lot of LSD in the hippie days or something?
You can call me Alex. My wife's name is Ann.
I can only repeat what the Church teaches: in a just war, such as the US war on Japan (and certainly in any other kind of war), it is immoral to deliberately target civilians. The attacks on Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki violated the Catholic principles of just war. This is quite regardless of how much better the world would have been if Japan were defeated faster, and quite regardless of what atrocities the Japanese committed.
I’ve had numerous arguments with people over this and have almost come to blows over it. The japanese were barbarinas in what they did in WW2 and they started a war with America and lost
I understand what you are saying but I am sure FDR provoked them with blockades.
When said civilians are contributing to the enemys ability to wage war they are. And no it is not against ‘’Catholic principals ‘’ An evil so malignant such as Nazism and Japanese aggression had to be eliminated. . And it is utter nonsense to dismiss what Japans army did. Again, it’s quite easy to be self-righteous 65 years on. Do you suppose if Japan had such a weapon they would not have used it? Principles don’t mean anything if you lose and in war there no second-place for the runner up. Are you sorry America won WW2?
Every worker in the country that is at war is supporting the war effort, even if only engaged in agriculture. This is not a valid distinction, and besides, there was no significant military installations in at least some of these three sites. Further, it was not even intended to disrupt the military supplies: the motivation is documented and it was to instill fear.
The comments posted here should convince you that the Roman Catholic Church is made up of many cafeteria-catholics - both Democrat & Republican!
I am sorry, but I know what the Catholic principles are in this regard, and they do not make the distinctions you make.
I am very glad that America prevailed over Japan and Germany. The objective of the war was just. The methods — not always.
I needed no convincing in that unfortunate fact.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.