Posted on 04/03/2010 3:12:52 PM PDT by NYer
This is my 16th Easter.
For the first 38 years of my life I did not celebrate Easter because I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, a pseudo- Christian group with a very strange economy of salvation. It is not easy to describe life in a cult like Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is very dark. Even their light is darkness.
Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the Trinity, so they do not believe in the deity of Christ. They believe that Jesus was Michael the Archangel before he came to earth, and that after he was resurrected, he went back to being Michael the Archangel — but with the name “Jesus.” They do believe Jesus died (but not on a cross) to save mankind from sin and death by atoning for the disobedience of Adam. Jesus had to be a perfect man, to match Adam in every respect, and thus he takes Adam’s place as our father. I know this is weird — not to mention the whole ontological problem of how he is an angel, then a human, and then an angel again — but I’m telling you about it because I want you to know that I had an idea that I could call myself a Christian and believe Jesus died for me, without conceiving of Jesus as God.
Most of you reading this are like my grandchildren who have heard all their lives that Jesus died for you and that Jesus is God the Son –- true God from true God. It has never dawned on you, because it was always the light that you lived in.
But it dawned on me.
In 1993, after a long and harrowing period of life disruption, searching for the peace and transformative power that I read about in the New Testament, I had an encounter with Christ.
Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
I did not know then that he was Deity, but I knew that he was not who the Jehovah’s Witnesses said he was. I knew that I would have to leave the religion that I had grown up in and known all my life. I would have to walk away from every relationship of my adult life. I went to a church.
Now to you, that might seem like the most natural thing in the world for me to do. You want to know about Jesus, you go to a church. But for me it was terrifying. I had always been told that churches housed demons. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not even like to turn their cars around in a 
church parking lot. But that visit to a church set me on the road to learning the truth about Jesus. It became pretty clear, pretty quickly that Christians worshiped Jesus. The fundamental fact of my religious upbringing had been that you only worshiped God (Jehovah), who is Jesus’ father. To worship anything or anyone else was to be guilty of idolatry. But there was a tractor beam on my heart. I had to figure out who Jesus really was.
Having left what I recognized to be a religion of error, I was very leery about falling into error or being misled once again. But I knew that I had to open my mind to the witness and the arguments of Christians around me in order to untwist the distorted way I had learned to read scripture.
A humorous skit put on one time at a meeting of ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses illustrated what I was facing. It featured a “Christian” trying to “help” a recently-exited Witness. When the ex-JW expressed confusion about Christian doctrine, the Christian said, “Oh, it’s easy. Just believe everything the opposite.”
“What are you talking about?” the baffled ex-JW asked.
“Well, you didn’t used to believe in the Trinity, and now you do. You didn’t used to believe in the deity of Christ, and now you do. You didn’t used to believe in the immortal soul, and now you do. You didn’t used to believe in going to heaven, and now you do. You didn’t used to believe in celebrating Christmas, and now you do. See, everything is the opposite. It’s easy.”
The appreciative laughter with which this was greeted gave testament to the fact that it is not easy! And the more you care, really care, about the truth, the harder your struggle is. If you have always lived in the truth, you can’t imagine how hard it is.
For a while I lived in a partial shadow. I was in love with Jesus, but still didn’t know what to make of all the Christian adoration of Him? How could I explain this phenomenon if he were not God?
I found some relief by latching onto the biblical image of the Church as the Bride of Christ. After all, what would be more natural than for a bride to be focused on her bridegroom? Of course Christians sang love songs to Jesus! It was the Jehovah’s Witnesses who were strange — like a bride who ignored her groom and tried to give all her affection to her father-in-law instead.
Meanwhile, I was participating in Christian prayer and worship to the best of my limited understanding. I also asked questions, and I studied… and studied and studied. Finally I was turned on to reading the Early Church Fathers. It started to became clear to me that this teaching — that Jesus was Divine, was God in the flesh — was really Christian teaching from the beginning, was the apostolic witness.
There was just one problem left in my mind: If Jesus was God, then that man on the Cross was God.
It would mean that God had died.
It would mean that God had died… for me.
For all time, there will be no more astounding, no more elevating, no more humbling proposal to a human soul than this.
And can it be that I should gain
an interest in the Savior’s blood!
Died he for me — who caused his pain –
For me who him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be
that thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
He left his Father’s throne above
(so free, so infinite his grace!),
emptied himself of all but love,
and bled for Adam’s helpless race.
’Tis mercy all, immense and free,
for O my God, it found out me!
Amazing love! How can it be
that thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
The sun had come up in my life.
[The lyrics are from the hymn, "And Can it Be (Amazing Love)", by Charles Wesley. Enjoy the lovely rendition here.]
How many people have you lead to the new birth lately?
- - - - - -
Actually, GOD does the converting, not us.
However, I am willing to bet I have been involved in more conversions than you, since I have left academia to minister full time.
But which "christ" do JWs preach? Don't they preach the angel-man-semi-god who isn't Jehovah God?
The apostle Paul clearly commented about someone coming and preaching a different Jesus:
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached... (2 Cor. 11:3-4)
See last sentence of #176 for a clue.
I AM NOT A JEHOVAH WITNESS.
I DON’T KNOW ANY JEHOVAH WITNESSES.
I HAVE NEVER SLEPT WITH A JEHOVAH WITNESS.
If you want to go after and witness to, and convert them, fine, have at it. Get out there in the field and compete.
I’m just trying to raise my family, live on the little portion of wealth the government lets me keep, and take care of the few people that I live and work with. Go get’em boys. But if you are really concerned about wrong doctrine, my gosh, no Christian denomination could have more wrong doctrine that the Roman Catholic Church. Hint: syncretism.
Interesting, you take one of the key attacking points of JW - the greek ‘stauro’ and the snide little comment about the Trinity - so while you make the above claim, your arguements point to something very similar.
Interesting you and others would spend your time attacking another Christian group, while muslims are killing our soldiers and trying to destory our country, Jews in Hollywood attack Christianity, capitalism, and ‘Americanism’, Romanists help illegal aliens infiltrate our southern borders-fondling them along the way, Buddhaist worship elephant faced beings in our country openly, but those damned JW they must be dispatched. Good job.
I’m a biblical Unitarian, not the traditional New England Unitarian that are weirder than JW’s. I believe there is one God. He begat, Jesus Christ, who lived a sinless life and died for all who believe in him, whom God raised from the dead to sit at His right hand. He, Jesus, will return and gather together his people, O.T and N.T. and will live with him upon this earth eternally, once evil and its progenitor has been vanquished. Call me what you will (macht nichts). You, as most Christians, are following the false teaching of a hyper-egotistical Eqyptian monk, Arian.
He won the battle of defining Christianity, not through Scriptures and logic but by deceit, violence, and deaths. “Our Heavenly Father Has No Equals” author, Donald Snedeker is a well researched work. Don’t be afraid.
If ye be risen with with Christ, seek those which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affections on things above, not on things on the earth. Col. 3:1
By definition of Biblical Christianity - they are not Christian, and they 'attack' us quite regularly.
while muslims are killing our soldiers and trying to destory our country, Jews in Hollywood attack Christianity, capitalism, and ‘Americanism’, Romanists help illegal aliens infiltrate our southern borders-fondling them along the way, Buddhaist worship elephant faced beings in our country openly, but those damned JW they must be dispatched. Good job.
Those 'issues' are being covered in other forums here - go play there, although I repudiate your antisemitic diatribes.
You, as most Christians, are following the false teaching of a hyper-egotistical Eqyptian monk, Arian.
Have you ever looked at what this 'monk' taught in respection to Christianity? LOL, what this 'monk' taught is closer to unitarism than Christianity. Please don't insult our intelligence here. And so what is this 'Jesus' of yours - a demigod?
He won the battle of defining Christianity, not through Scriptures and logic but by deceit, violence, and deaths.
Are you still talking about Arian?
“Our Heavenly Father Has No Equals” author, Donald Snedeker is a well researched work.
His work - from what I've read of it - consists of making strawman arguements of HIS definitions of the Trinity, then engages in scripture twisting on top of the deceptive presentation of Trinitarian doctrine to knock those straw men down.
I repudiate your repudiation, whatever. It is now antisemitic, according to you to state a fact about most Hollywood Jews. You are laughable. Can you say with a straight face say that Hollywood in the aggregate is not anti-Christ and anti-capitalist and anti-American? Please go away and let the adults talk now.
Hollywood “Jews” is derogatory selective identification of a specific race of people - there are plenty of others in hollywood who have degraded it into a cesspool. So when you become an adult, then you can come and talk.
Shoe fits?
Small Wiki Sample:
Jim Abrahams, parody director
J.J. Abrams, writer and director
Woody Allen (1935–) Yiddish speaking Academy Award-winning film director, writer, actor, and comedian and musician[23]
Judd Apatow (1968–) screenwriter, television/film producer[59]
Alan Arkin (1934–) Academy Award-nominated film actor, director[23][43]
Jack Arnold, director
Darren Aronofsky (1969–) film director, screenwriter and producer[48]
George Axelrod, director, producer and screenwriter
Ralph Bakshi, Israeli-born animation film director, screenwriter, and animator.
Bob Balaban, director and producer
Richard Benjamin (1938–) actor/film director[23]
Andrew Bergman, director
Edward Bernds, director of Three Stooges and Blondie films
Curtis Bernhardt, German-born director and producer
Peter Bogdanovich, director (Jewish mother)
Zach Braff (1975–) television and film actor, director, screenwriter, and producer[60][61]
Kevin Bright, director, screenwriter, and executive producer
James L. Brooks, Oscar-winning director, writer, producer
Mel Brooks, director, writer, actor, producer, composer, lyricist, and stand-up comedian
Richard Brooks, director
Edward Cahn, director of Our Gang from 1939–1943
William Castle, director
Larry Clark, independent film director, writer, producer, and photographer.
Ethan & Joel Coen (AKA the Coen brothers) directors, screenwriters & producers
Rob Cohen, director, producer
Ricardo Cortez, director and actor; brother of Stanley Cortez
David Cronenberg, film maker, director, screenwriter, and actor.
George Cukor, Oscar-winning director.
Michael Curtiz, Oscar-winning director.
Paul Czinner, Hungarian-born director.
Jules Dassin, director
Larry David, Emmy-winning writer, director, comedian, actor, producer, co-creator of Seinfeld and creator of Curb Your Enthusiasm
Andrew Davis, director
Cecil B. DeMille, Academy Award-winning film director and producer[62]
Maya Deren, director
Henri Diamant-Berger, French-born director, producer and screenwriter
Stanley Donen, legendary film director and choreographer.
Richard Elfman, director
Nora Ephron, acclaimed film director, producer, screenwriter, novelist, journalist, author.
Douglas Fairbanks (real name Douglas Ullman), film director, screenwriter, actor, and producer.
Max Fleischer, animator, director, producer, inventor, and a major pioneer in the development of the animated cartoon who served as the head of Fleischer Studios..
Richard Fleischer, director; son of animator Max Fleischer
Victor Fleming, legendary Oscar-winning film director, cinematographer, and producer.
Isaac Florentine, director
Miloš Forman film director, screenwriter, actor and professor.
Carl Foreman, director, producer and screenwriter
William Friedkin, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, producer.
Samuel Fuller, director
Lee Grant (1927–) Academy Award-winning theater, film and television actress, and film director[23]
Christopher Guest (1948–) Lord Haden-Guest, actor, writer, director, composer, musician, and founding Spinal Tap member[63][64]
Charles Guggenheim, Oscar-winning documentary director
Todd Haynes, director
Amy Heckerling, director and screenwriter
Peter Hyams, director
Spike Jonze, (real name Adam Spiegel), director and producer of film, television, and music videos
Garson Kanin, director, screenwriter and playwright
Lawrence Kasdan, director
Jeffrey Katzenberg (1950–) film producer, director and co-founder of DreamWorks SKG[65]
Philip Kaufman, director, screenwriter
Tony Kaye, director of films, music videos and documentaries, who directed the much praised film American History X
Irvin Kershner, film director
Zalman King, director
Harmony Korine, independent film director, screenwriter, producer
Henry Koster, director
Stanley Kramer, director[66]
Stanley Kubrick, legendary film director, screenwriter, producer, photographer of films
John Landis (1950–) movie actor, director, writer, and producer[67]
Fritz Lang, film director, screenwriter, and producer
Norman Lear, creator, head screenwriter and producer
Mimi Leder, director
Mervyn LeRoy, legendary Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, and producer
Richard Lester, director
Barry Levinson, Oscar-winning director
Shuki Levy, singer-songwriter, composer, television writer, director, and executive producer
Jerry Lewis (1926–) comedian, singer, actor, film director, writer, film producer, and humanitarian[23]
Anatole Litvak, Russian-born director
Siegmund Lubin, director
Ernst Lubitsch, director
Sidney Lumet, director
Joseph L. Mankiewicz, Oscar-winning director
Tom Mankiewicz, director and screenwriter; son of Joseph L. Mankiewicz
Daniel Mann, director
Michael Mann, legendary film director, screenwriter, producer[68]
Stuart Margolin, director and actor
Elaine May, director, actress and screenwriter
Paul Mazursky (1930–) director, producer and actor[69]
Albert & David Maysles, documentary filmmakers
Sam Mendes, filmmaker, director, producer
Nancy Meyers, director, screenwriter
Lewis Milestone, Oscar-winning director
Bennett Miller, Oscar-nominated director (”Capote”)
Sam Newfield, TV & film director
Mike Nichols (1931–) Emmy, Grammy, Tony and Academy Award-winning film and stage director[23]
Leonard Nimoy, film director, actor, writer, singer, songwriter, poet, and photographer
Ken Olin (1954–) actor, director and producer[70]
Marcel Ophüls, director; son of director Max Ophüls
Richard Oswald, German-born director and producer
Alan J. Pakula, Oscar-winning director, producer
Arthur Penn, director
Leo Penn, director
Abraham Polonsky, director
Sydney Pollack, Oscar-winning director, actor, producer
Otto Preminger, director
Sam Raimi, director
Harold Ramis, director, writer, producer, actor
Irving Rapper (1898–1999) British-born film director[71]
Brett Ratner, director
Carl Reiner, director and actor; father of Rob Reiner
Rob Reiner (1947–) actor, director, producer, writer, political and anti-tobacco activist; son of Carl Reiner
Ron Rifkin (1939–) actor, director[70]
Martin Ritt, director
Jay Roach, director
Jerome Robbins, Oscar-winning director, and one of the most innovative and influential choreographers and filmmakers in history
Herbert Ross, director
Robert Rossen, director, screenwriter
Eli Roth (1972–) film actor, director, producer and writer[72]
Joe Roth, director, producer and executive
Joel Schumacher, director (Jewish mother)
Sam Seder (1966–) actor, comedian, writer, producer, director[56]
Susan Seidelman, director
Adam Shankman, director, choreographer
George Sidney (1916–2002) American film director, known for MGM films[23]
Don Siegel, director
Bryan Singer, director and producer
Robert Siodmak, German-born director
Todd Solondz, director
Barry Sonnenfeld, director[73]
Steven Spielberg, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, producer
Josef von Sternberg, Austrian-born director (The Blue Angel)
Oliver Stone, Oscar-winning film director and screenwriter
Paul Strand, documentary director
Erich von Stroheim, film director, pro-auteur, and actor of the silent age as well as the later eras.
James Toback, director, screenwriter and producer
Edgar G. Ulmer, director
Chris Weitz and Paul Weitz, director brothers best known for American Pie
Billy Wilder, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, and producer, whose career spanned more than 50 years and 60 films
Irwin Winkler, director
Robert Wise, film director, producer, sound effects editor, film editor. Wise’s working period spanned the 1930s to the 1990s.
Frederick Wiseman, documentary director
William Wyler, Oscar-winning director
Boaz Yakin, director
Fred Zinnemann, Austrian-born Oscar-winning director
David Zucker & Jerry Zucker (1950–) parody directors, producers[74]
Edward Zwick, director, producer
Terry Zwigoff, director
Pssst, a tribe maybe, not a race.
Thank you. We’re all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view.
wow, the entire history of films condensed into a short list, you probably have another list of all the jewish bankers who caused the economic down turn too. And another for childhood obesity.
Why do you speak in the plural of majesty?
Where is you list of Baptists directors/producer?
No response on the faulty use of race, when you meant
tribe?
Joke: What do Rahm Emauel, George Soros, and David
Alexrod have in common, besides their circumcision?
1.)They all take turn holding the strings to Obama.
or
2.)They all hate the country of Israel as much as Obama
does.
Which one (1.) or (2.) has the best ring to it?
I am not the only one amused by your embarrasment here
Race is correct - not tribe.
Don’t need to list the others - many are atheists (as are the ‘joose’ you listed). I don’t get wrapped around racial issues - except when there is antisemitism involved.
What does 0bama have in common with them? Or his sidekick vp.
So, the mean JW’s must be shut up and vanquished because they believe in the literal translation of the Greek word ‘stauros’ in the N.T.
But let’s give the atheistic, Christ hating, vulgar, secular majority of the Hollywood crowd a pass, and if you do point out their influence on our culture, that would be called antisemitic. Some people pull out the ‘anti-s’ word like some people of tone pull out the n-word, like a get-out-of-jail-free-card.
Funny, some scientists say that there is no such thing as race. They say it is a 19th Century construct by bigoted white men. Some say it is just clines. Which is it?
If the Juice are a race, are the Cherokee a specific race? Are the Hutu a specific race or just a tribe?
The ripping of veil in the Temple was real and very symbolic. During our age, the Church Age, their is neither Jew nor Greek (gentile). Gal. 3:28. Today their are only believers and unbelievers.
As I understand, when the Book of Revelation starts, the Jews become the focus again. Today, the Jews are just like me and you. No more and no less. I’m not ‘anti-s’ it’s just when I see evil I point it out, irregardless of who is at the end of the finger. Hollywood, in my opinion, has had as much effect or more on our culture as any text books ever printed. Most it is negative. Who started putting rating movies and who fought it?
Little Lizard don’t you have any real JW’s to hassel now?
Thank you for this. You reminded me of a boy with whom I went to school. He was JW and had to sit out various activities. It made him an outcast.
They can 'speak' all they want (and they do) about their flawed interpretation of 'stauros' - a point already made very clear earlier - and a flawed attempt to continue the misconception. We can speak all we want to about that flawed translation.
. . . and if you do point out their influence on our culture, that would be called antisemitic.
By laying it all at the feet of a few Jews (by race, not necessarly religious belief) involved in the industry is racist.
No more and no less. I’m not ‘anti-s’ it’s just when I see evil I point it out, irregardless of who is at the end of the finger. Hollywood, in my opinion, has had as much effect or more on our culture as any text books ever printed. Most it is negative.
And contrary to your anti-semitic rant - the Jews in Hollywood are not totally responsible for it. Since you singled them out and ignored all the other influences eh.
Little Lizard don’t you have any real JW’s to hassel now?
When they do, I will. Until then I have to put up with unintelligent rants by a similar species of arians.
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