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To: vladimir998

The “Church” IS people.

Any failings of people in the church are failings of the church.

If the church (people) did not fail, why would Jesus have to die for His church, His bride?

There is a completely illogical attempt to separate the “Church” from any responsibility for her actions, not only by you, but by other posters on this thread.

We are not called to worship the “Church,” but only our Creator. It seems to me that some are forgetting that.

And the result is that victims of the “Church” abuse are left to suffer while the perpetrators of that abuse are protected by the “Church.”


148 posted on 04/03/2010 11:42:18 AM PDT by srweaver (Never Forget the Judicial Homicide of Terri Schiavo)
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To: srweaver

You wrote:

“The “Church” IS people.”

No. If that were so then that would include Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and everyone else. St. Paul calls the Church the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ. It is not people, but some people make up its members. Also, as Christ Himself made abundantly clear, there would be real authorities in His Church. It would not be a people’s democracy.

“Any failings of people in the church are failings of the church.”

No. The Church - as scripture states - is a spotless bride. Thus, the sins of individual men remain the sins of individual men and do not become the sins of Christ or His Bride.

“If the church (people) did not fail, why would Jesus have to die for His church, His bride?”

He died for HUMANITY to be redeemed. His death is applicable to the Church in salvific power given it in the sacraments - hence the interpretation of the water and blood from His side. He did not die for the supposed sins of any organization. He died for the sins of men. Individual men.

“There is a completely illogical attempt to separate the “Church” from any responsibility for her actions, not only by you, but by other posters on this thread.”

No. It is only logical to view things as they are. The Bride is spotless. It is only illogical to impute to the body of Christ sins committed by individuals. If that were possible then you would be just as responsible as Fr. Murphy or Archbishop Rembert Weakland. How’s that work for you? I know I am completely blameless in the Wisconsin case because I had absolutely nothing to do with any clerical abuse case ever in any way, shape or form. If the Church is guilty of the sins of its members then all the members must also be guilty. I know I did NOTHING wrong. Protestants routinely say they are in the Church too. Taht would mean that they are too - in some way - guilty as well. None of that makes sense, but that is what you’re putting forward. Are you sure you even thought this through? It doesn’t appear that you did.

“We are not called to worship the “Church,” but only our Creator. It seems to me that some are forgetting that.”

No, no one is forgetting that. I have NEVER seen anyone say we should worship the Church. What we should do is realize what the Church is and not falsely impute to it the sins of some of its members.

“And the result is that victims of the “Church” abuse are left to suffer while the perpetrators of that abuse are protected by the “Church.””

Nope. Any victim can go to the police any time they like. Decades old cases that were poorly handled are still decades old. They are not handled that way anymore and it should never have happened that way in the first place.


149 posted on 04/03/2010 2:04:51 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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