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Are Anti-Mormons Christians?
FAIR ^ | Russell McGregor

Posted on 03/16/2010 10:51:13 AM PDT by Paragon Defender

One of the popular themes used by critics is to pose the question, "Are Mormons Christian?" and to come up with the answer "no". This theme has appeared, without substantial variation, in a number of anti-Mormon publications over the years.

The approach has been trivially simple: to create a set of false dichotomies consisting of assertions to the effect that Christians (i.e. the critic's preferred flavor of Christians) believe X, while Mormons are (usually inaccurately) portrayed as believing Y, which X and Y are assumed (and not demonstrated) to be incompatible. Hence, Mormons cannot be Christian.

A number of responses have been made to this argument. Some have turned the critics' argument on its head; since LDS Christians believe A, and a given critic believes B, then that critic is not a Christian. This approach exposes the fallacy of the argument and pokes fun at it at the same time. An alternative approach, of interest to serious students of the scriptures, is to show the biblical support for the genuine LDS beliefs that the critics both misrepresent and dismiss.

This essay uses a third approach. It has always been the stance of the Latter-day Saints to live by the Golden Rule, as part of the teachings of Jesus, extending to others the same courtesy that they would like them to extend to us. Thus, we do not generally question the genuineness of another's Christian belief. However, the question "Are Mormons Christian?" is invariably based on the assumption that the questioner is a Christian (which we have generally not disputed) and that his or her Christianity is definitive. It is the first assumption that we shall question here, with the intent of restoring some balance into the debate. As we shall see, it is not the LDS Christians, but their critics, who need to be concerned about their Christian credentials.

This may seem, at first glance, to be a rather odd thing to say; the anti-Mormon movement has defined the debate in such a way that their Christianity is not open to question. Many of them are (or profess to be) clergymen, while most of them are conservative Evangelical Protestants of one sort or another. And yet the question remains and continues to be asked: is anti-Mormonism truly a Christian activity? The answer, both in the general case and in the particulars, is a clear and resounding no.

Let us consider the general case first. Before we do, it would be useful to define our terms, instead of relying (as our opponents frequently do) upon assumed meanings (which they too-often shift in mid-sentence). The word Christian I take to mean what the dictionary says that it means, namely, a follower of Jesus Christ. I explicitly repudiate the frequent anti-Mormon assertion, which parallels Parson Thwackum, that "Christian" means "historical Christian," i.e. one who agrees with the doctrines promulgated by the ecumenical councils. I rely upon the clearly understood definition that seems to be accepted for all purposes except religious polemic. As a noun, Christian means a disciple of Christ. As an adjective, Christian is an exact synonym of Christ-like.

The term anti-Mormon is herein used to describe any person or organization that is directly and actively opposed to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its doctrines, policies and programs. It is not, as critics sometimes mischievously try to claim, a catchall term for anyone who does not accept or believe in the Church, but is applied only to those who actively campaign against it. As an adjective, it applies to those specific activities that may with reasonable accuracy be described as attacks upon the Church.

The general case can best be discovered by investigating what the New Testament has to say about such activities. The New Testament is the logical choice because it is held to be authoritative by almost all Christians, regardless of their differences. And in examining it we find little that gives aid and comfort to the anti-Mormon cause, while there is considerable material that weakens their position.

For example, Mark 9:38-40 tells how the apostles saw someone casting out devils in the name of Jesus and so they forbade him, because he did not follow them. Jesus explicitly told them to "forbid him not," adding, "for he that is not against us is on our part." When Paul went to Rome he met with the leaders of the Jews in that city, and told them why he was there. They told him that they hadn't heard anything about him, but they wanted to hear what he had to say about the Church, "for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against." (Acts 28:22.) Paul (in Gal. 5:19-23) and James (in Jas.3:14-18) both contrast the peaceful, non-controversial Christian way of doing things with contentious and strife-ridden world. Paul calls it the "fruit of the spirit" versus the "fruit of the flesh" while James talks about the "wisdom from above" and the "wisdom from below." In both cases it is the inferior, uninspired article that produces contention.

Notwithstanding the hollow and insincere protestations of "Christian love" with which anti-Mormons frequently window-dress their attacks on our beliefs, their activities are nothing if not contentious.

A number of examples of religious controversy are described in the New Testament. Perhaps the most revealing is the account of the "Diana incident" in Ephesus (Acts 19:24-41). The following is a summary of that incident. Note the parallels to the activities of anti-Mormons in our day.

A group of anti's identify the Church as a threat to their livelihood (24-25) and interpret the Church's teachings as an attack on their religion (26-27) despite the fact that the missionaries had not actually said anything derogatory (37). The anti's chanted religious slogans (28) and set about creating a riot (29-32) in the course of which two of the missionaries were dragged into court (29). The members protected the visiting General Authority (30-31) and put forward a spokesman to make a defense (33). However the anti's silenced him by chanting their religious slogan for two hours(!) (34). Things could have turned out very badly (as they have, all too often in this dispensation) but for the intervention of a wise and fair-minded public official who pointed out that the missionaries had neither done nor said anything wrong (37) and that there was no cause for such an uproar (40). (Isn't it just as well that the town clerk was not a first-century Governor Ford!)

The parallel is exact. Anti-Mormons today are the legitimate heirs of Demetrius the Silversmith, while the ancient saints behave strikingly like the modern ones.

The one passage that critics sometimes cite to justify their position is found in 1 Peter 3:15. But if this verse is the best they can do, then they are in trouble, because it is pretty weak. It tells Christians to be ready to answer questions about their beliefs, not to attack those who believe differently. In other words, it says that if someone approaches a Christian and asks, "what do you believe, and why?" then Christian needs to be ready to answer in terms of his or her own beliefs. Anti-Mormons who use this passage as a proof-text would presumably answer with, "I believe them Mormons is out to lunch because?" That is not what Peter is telling us. The New Testament gives the anti-Mormon cause no help; the generalities of the case are all against them.

The particulars of the case are not any more helpful. In practice, anti-Mormons exhibit various degrees of hypocrisy in their work. Consider the following statement, found on a Web site maintained by Jason R. Smith:

While we are not LDS we are not "Anti's," either, as some would like to label us. We are, however, interested in the Restoration Movement, in all of it's [sic] facets. I myself spend a lot of time studying the works of the LDS and RLDS churches in hopes of coming to a clearer understanding and focus of their beliefs.

This would seem to be saying that Jason is interested in learning about the LDS Church and gaining an understanding of its teachings. It seems a little odd to establish a Web site for this purpose, since Web sites are far more effective at disseminating information than gathering it. However, he immediately lets the cat out of the bag in the very next paragraph, thus:

Why do I do this? Because I consider such ideas as the Doctrine of the Apostasy and the First Vision attacks against the Christian Faith.

The hypocrisy of Jason's position is so utterly transparent as to be obvious to all but the most dedicated anti-Mormon. An exact parallel would be for a LDS to say, "I'm not an anti-Baptist; I just spend all my free time maintaining a Web site finding fault with the Baptist Church because I believe that Baptist ideas about cheap-grace solafidianism are attacks against the Christian Faith." In reality, to characterize the beliefs of any group of sincere Christians as "attacks against the Christian Faith" is about as "anti" that group as it is possible to get.

Many anti-Mormons take Jason's position, claiming that they are actually "defending" something called "the Christian Faith" against the Latter-day Saints, whom they see as attacking it. Never mind that there is no book or pamphlet published by the Church that attacks, denigrates, undermines or belittles the beliefs of any other church; we are attacking them simply by believing such "ideas" as the First Vision.

The flaw in this reasoning should be obvious from the outset: not only does every church have beliefs that are in some way inimical to the truth claims of other churches, but the mere existence of each church is an implicit vote of no confidence in all of the others. The choice to belong to a church that baptizes by immersion is at least an expression of a preference not to belong to a church that sprinkles.

If everyone agreed that all was well in Rome, there would have been no reformation, and hence no Protestants, while the huge number of Protestant sects is testimony to the dim view which the reformers take of each other's work. Every church believes-or at very least, once believed-explicitly or otherwise, that it is in some way better than all others; in other words, that all others are inferior to it.

Does that mean that every Christian is automatically "attacking" everyone not of his or her sect? Of course it does not, but that is the absurd rationale that anti-Mormons adopt when they say that believing in the First Vision is an attack on the "Christian Faith." Actually, since Latter-day Saints are Christian, it follows that LDS doctrines, including the Apostasy and the First Vision, are part of their Christian Faith and therefore not an attack on it at all. In fact those doctrines teach not that there is anything wrong with the Christian Faith, but simply that those who profess to hold it have lost track of parts of it. It takes no great genius to realize that a restoration of the gospel can only be proclaimed by those who think that the gospel is a rather important thing.

Anti-Mormons consider it "Christian" to do things that, if the tables were turned, they would consider completely unChristian. And they would be right, too. "Be sure to get the facts from the true Christians picketing outside the temple" screamed an Internet buffoon recently, referring to the Preston (U.K.) Temple open house. Let us pause for a moment and reflect; can anyone imagine a group of Latter-day Saints picketing, say, a Methodist Church? Of course not. That would be an utterly unChristian thing to do, and since we are Christians, we don't do such things. Let us consider again the incident from Acts 19, discussed earlier. Can anyone imagine Paul and the other missionaries picketing the temple of Diana? It is pretty clear that they did no such thing. Turn it around; can we visualize the "antis" of that time picketing Christian places of worship? Yes, very easily. Anti- Mormons do such things, because anti-Mormonism is not Christian. There are, in fact, no "true Christians" picketing outside any LDS Temples, since that is not what true Christians do.

At this juncture, it is altogether apropos to consider the terrible consequences of anti-religious polemic in general. In the past it has led to such historical highlights as the feeding of Christians to the lions for public amusement, the burning of heretics, the crusades and the Seven Years' War, while it is at least partly responsible for the Nazi death camps. The epithet of "Christ-killers" applied to Jews is nothing if not religious polemic, while ghettos and yellow stars of David were conscious borrowings from medieval Catholic anti-Semitism. Anti- Mormon polemic in particular has led to the Boggs extermination order, the murder of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, the expulsion from Nauvoo, Johnston's army and the Edmunds-Tucker act. When we see the anti-Mormon fraternity loudly repeating the very same charges that led to those nineteenth-century atrocities, we cannot but wonder if some (if not most ) of them secretly yearn for a return to the glory days when their fulminations caused lynchings, mass murder, wholesale rape, and the crushing of women's voting rights.

The use of false accusations by anti-Mormons has been discussed in some detail by others. The Satanic nature of this activity (Satan means "accuser" or "slanderer") needs no commentary; but what is really interesting is the way that anti-Mormons quite clearly (and it may be argued, deliberately) transfer their misdeeds to us. For example: "Mormons don't know their own doctrines." This common anti-Mormon claim is a cover-up for the fact that the critics don't know our doctrines; at least, they very consistently get them wrong. "Mormons misrepresent their own beliefs." This is quite a blatant reversal of the truth; actually the critics misrepresent our beliefs.

"Mormons are racist." This is truly ironic. We remember that the Saints were driven out of Missouri because they were mostly Northern and therefore opposed to slavery, while the Baptists, Episcopalians and others in the South supported that institution. Actually the very frequent playing of the race card by the Church's critics is a pretty clear indication that they have very few valid criticisms to make.

Perhaps more significant is the fact that anti- Mormonism is almost exclusively a white mens' club; the few exceptions are white women. When we connect this with the fact that the geographical home of anti-Mormonism is KKK country, there may be an explanation ready at hand. In times past it was a popular joke in some quarters that the Procol Harum song "A Whiter Shade of Pale" was the South African national anthem. That nation is no longer eligible to use that song, but maybe the anti- Mormons could make use of it.

"Mormons repress women." Utah territory was the first place in the U.S. where women voted. The antipolygamy "crusaders," the anti-Mormons of just a few generations ago, managed to get women's suffrage suppressed in Utah because Utah women supported plural marriage.

Anti-Mormons frequently dismiss LDS testimonies as mere rote repetition. "This testimony is normally repeated as if by memory, with little inflection or emotion," says Michael H. Reynolds in Sharing the Faith with Your Mormon Friends, p. 18. In what FARMS reviewer Daniel C. Peterson calls "a richly ironic touch," that "little falsehood is followed almost immediately" by an earnest recommendation that "Christians" (i.e. anti-Mormon proselytizers) should memorize and practice reciting their testimonies. Rote repetition is clearly acceptable for anti-Mormons to use, but not for Latter-day Saints.

"The Mormon Church is money-hungry." And so we ask, when we see these televangelists with their multi-million-dollar incomes, their corporate jets and their mistresses, why are none of them LDS? Why are all of them Evangelical Protestants of some shade or another?

"The LDS church's missionary program is one of proselytizing, rather than evangelism. Its goal is not to lead lost sinners to faith in Jesus, but to detach people from their churches and attach them to the LDS church." So says Robert McKay. And what, may we ask, is the famous SBC missionary effort in Utah about, if not to detach people from the LDS Church and attach them to the Baptist church?

"The Mormon Church's leaders are crooks and charlatans." Walter Martin, Dee Jay Nelson and Ed Decker, to name just a few examples, are/were liars and charlatans. Mark W. Hofmann is a crook; the very pseudo-scholarly Tanners are charlatans. Criminality and charlatanry are firmly at home in the anti-Mormon camp, having been firmly rebuffed by the Latter-day Saints.

A variation on the above statement is the oft-proclaimed opinion that "The Mormon Church's leaders must know that the whole thing is a fake." What a world of smugness and arrogance is encapsulated in that single sentence! The anti-Mormon has reached a conclusion that "the whole thing is a fake," and so naturally no well-informed person could possibly hold a contrary opinion; and nobody is better informed on this subject than the Church's leaders. Therefore, when they tell the rest of us poor deluded souls that they actually believe in the Church to which they have devoted the better part of their lives, they are lying to us. The utterly astonishing conclusion to which this leads is that not one of the Church's general authorities has ever been an honest man, or even a decent human being.

"The Mormon Church teaches salvation by works." Real Christians, we are told, need only the grace of God through Christ. Very well, so what is all this anti-Mormon activity about? Can't Latter-day Saints be saved by grace through faith in Christ? Well, apparently not. As Peterson so cogently writes, And it is clear, frankly, that there is one work, one human action, that our Baptist critics do regard, however inconsistently, as essential for our salvation: "If for some reason you should trust a Jesus other than the one who is revealed in the New Testament," says Michael Reynolds, "then your trust is in vain, even if by some chance the rest of your theology is intact. ... [T]here is no hope for those who trust in this different Jesus."

Obviously, in Reynolds's view, theological error is the one unforgivable sin. And theological rectitude is the one indispensable work. That is to say, in the anti-Mormon's eyes, in order for Latter-day Saints to be saved by grace, we have to first do a work, which is to renounce our belief in Mormonism.

This becomes extremely significant, for of the major doctrinal differences between Latter-day Saints and "mainstream" Christians, differences on the matter of salvation would have to rank among the first three. And the cacophony that is the anti- Mormon chorus reaches a near unanimity when the critics insist that all real Christians believe in salvation by grace alone, and that we will be damned unless we give up our "heretical" beliefs. And yet the second statement expressly contradicts the first. Although this poses no problem for Latter-day Saints, other Christians can only resolve the dilemma by accepting the first statement as it stands, and then concluding that those who make the second statement are not real Christians on their own criteria, since they insist on a works-based salvation.

So we return to the question with which we began this survey: are anti-Mormons Christian? The answer: of course not. They were never even in the hunt. Their clerical collars and pious platitudes are simply a smokescreen to hide the ugly reality that anti-Mormonism is one of the clear manifestations of the darkest side of human nature; the side that made possible the death camps and burning crosses, the massacre of the Hutus and the wholesale slaughter of the Native Americans. Just as vicious and repressive dictatorships like to give themselves grandiose and liberal-sounding titles like "The People's Democratic Socialist Republic of Such-and-such", so these nasty religious haters appropriate the label of "Christian" in order to claim for themselves a specious respectability that their deeds and attitudes do not merit.

Notwithstanding all of the above, Latter-day Saints are, and continue to be, more than willing to allow these folk the right to call themselves Christians. All we ask is that they return the same courtesy.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: antichristianthread; antimormonthread; christian; lds; mormon; mormon1
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To: Saundra Duffy; colorcountry
When I was in Salt Lake City at Temple Square last summer there was this young man with white face paint and he was wearing Temple garb. I guess he was protesting or something and I asked him if he was a Mormon and he said, “You bet.” I have no idea why he was there. It was just very strange.

Oh, he is a very real mormon SD, one who prayed sincerely to God about what he is doing and was given a testimony by the Holy Spirit to do what he is doing. Does that bother you.

BTW some of the anti Mormons are satanic looking and acting.

Oh, so it is OK for you to judge a person based upon their outward apparence and not from any experience or knowledge of their inward conditions. Take the plank out SD.

481 posted on 03/17/2010 12:59:07 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Saundra Duffy
"A dog returns to its vomit."???

Talk about vicious comments....

Nice way to talk about people who you are criticizing and condemning for their unchristlike behavior and speech.

482 posted on 03/17/2010 1:00:30 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: reaganaut

“Who has the pics of the LDS missionaries desecrating a Catholic chapel?”

Those guys caught heck from their leaders. Boy, were they sorry. They might have gotten kicked out of their missions. I don’t know.

I saw this thing on YouTube of this anti Mormon who thinks it’s funny to find Missionaries and knock them off their bikes and steal their bikes.

I used to be an anti Mormon, as you know, but at least I was never mean to a Mormon. And I would never have dreamed of posting such awful garbage as I have read on this site against Mormons. Sheesh already.

One time this Baptist lady found out I was a Mormon and she said, “Well, then you’re not a Christian!” I told her that Jesus Christ is my Savior and I love Him. She has been nice to me ever since. Some Christians actually believe Mormons when we say we love and serve the Savior. Jesus died for Mormons, too.


483 posted on 03/17/2010 1:01:43 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: reaganaut

What the heck is that???


484 posted on 03/17/2010 1:04:14 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: RaceBannon
Matthew 16 1The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. 2He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. 3And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. 5And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. 1From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 1Καὶ προσελθόντες οἱ Φαρισαῖοι καὶ Σαδδουκαῖοι πειράζοντες ἐπηρώτησαν αὐτὸν σημεῖον ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ἐπιδεῖξαι αὐτοῖς. 2ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, [Ὀψίας γενομένης λέγετε, Εὐδία, πυρράζει γὰρ ὁ οὐρανός: 3καὶ πρωΐ, Σήμερον χειμών, πυρράζει γὰρ στυγνάζων ὁ οὐρανός. τὸ μὲν πρόσωπον τοῦ οὐρανοῦ γινώσκετε διακρίνειν, τὰ δὲ σημεῖα τῶν καιρῶν οὐ δύνασθε.] 4Γενεὰ πονηρὰ καὶ μοιχαλὶς σημεῖον ἐπιζητεῖ, καὶ σημεῖον οὐ δοθήσεται αὐτῇ εἰ μὴ τὸ σημεῖον Ἰωνᾶ. καὶ καταλιπὼν αὐτοὺς ἀπῆλθεν. 5Καὶ ἐλθόντες οἱ μαθηταὶ εἰς τὸ πέραν ἐπελάθοντο ἄρτους λαβεῖν. 6ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, Ὁρᾶτε καὶ προσέχετε ἀπὸ τῆς ζύμης τῶν Φαρισαίων καὶ Σαδδουκαίων. 7οἱ δὲ διελογίζοντο ἐν ἑαυτοῖς λέγοντες ὅτι Ἄρτους οὐκ ἐλάβομεν. 8γνοὺς δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν, Τί διαλογίζεσθε ἐν ἑαυτοῖς, ὀλιγόπιστοι, ὅτι ἄρτους οὐκ ἔχετε; 9οὔπω νοεῖτε, οὐδὲ μνημονεύετε τοὺς πέντε ἄρτους τῶν πεντακισχιλίων καὶ πόσους κοφίνους ἐλάβετε; 10 ὐδὲ τοὺς ἑπτὰ ἄρτους τῶν τετρακισχιλίων καὶ πόσας σπυρίδας ἐλάβετε; 11πῶς οὐ νοεῖτε ὅτι οὐ περὶ ἄρτων εἶπον ὑμῖν; προσέχετε δὲ ἀπὸ τῆς ζύμης τῶν Φαρισαίων καὶ Σαδδουκαίων. 12τότε συνῆκαν ὅτι οὐκ εἶπεν προσέχειν ἀπὸ τῆς ζύμης τῶν ἄρτων ἀλλὰ ἀπὸ τῆς διδαχῆς τῶν Φαρισαίων καὶ Σαδδουκαίων. 13Ἐλθὼν δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἰς τὰ μέρη Καισαρείας τῆς Φιλίππου ἠρώτα τοὺς μαθητὰς αὐτοῦ λέγων, Τίνα λέγουσιν οἱ ἄνθρωποι εἶναι τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου; 14οἱ δὲ εἶπαν, Οἱ μὲν Ἰωάννην τὸν βαπτιστήν, ἄλλοι δὲ Ἠλίαν, ἕτεροι δὲ Ἰερεμίαν ἢ ἕνα τῶν προφητῶν. 15λέγει αὐτοῖς, Ὑμεῖς δὲ τίνα με λέγετε εἶναι; 16ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ Σίμων Πέτρος εἶπεν, Σὺ εἶ ὁ Χριστὸς ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ζῶντος. 17ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτῷ, Μακάριος εἶ, Σίμων Βαριωνᾶ, ὅτι σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα οὐκ ἀπεκάλυψέν σοι ἀλλ' ὁ πατήρ μου ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς. 18κἀγὼ δέ σοι λέγω ὅτι σὺ εἶ Πέτρος, καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ οἰκοδομήσω μου τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, καὶ πύλαι ἅ|δου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς. 19δώσω σοι τὰς κλεῖδας τῆς βασιλείας τῶν οὐρανῶν, καὶ ὃ ἐὰν δήσῃς ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἔσται δεδεμένον ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς, καὶ ὃ ἐὰν λύσῃς ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἔσται λελυμένον ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς. 20τότε διεστείλατο τοῖς μαθηταῖς ἵνα μηδενὶ εἴπωσιν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ Χριστός
485 posted on 03/17/2010 1:07:50 PM PDT by Little Bill (Carol Che-Porter is a MOONBAT.)
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To: Little Bill
A lot of bigots, what ever happened to the statement. “When Ever Three Of You gather in my Name!”, as the definition of a Christian.

That definition is so wrong on so many levels.

it's not even CLOSE to being a correct or accurate definition of *Christian*.

486 posted on 03/17/2010 1:07:55 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: colorcountry; Saundra Duffy

She promised to get up on the roof and explain her “gospel”

I’m still waiting...

another empty mormon boast ???


487 posted on 03/17/2010 1:10:05 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy

I was at Temple Square when conference let out, last spring.

The people were streaming out of the upper levels of the great and spacious building, pointing, laughing at, and saying bad things to the preachers there.

It reminded me of Lehi’s dream.


488 posted on 03/17/2010 1:10:38 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: Little Bill

what ever happened to the statement. “When Ever Three Of You gather in my Name!”, as the definition of a Christian.
_______________________________________

Really ???

Source ???

Scripture from the Christian Bible please ...


489 posted on 03/17/2010 1:12:12 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy; reaganaut
I used to be an anti Mormon, as you know, but at least I was never mean to a Mormon.

Then why do you seem to presume that EVERYONE else who you label as anti-Mormon is mean to them? You know, vicious comments and all?

Your portrayal of all Mormons as never doing anything mean, and anti's as always doing mean things is disingenuous.

Mormons are no more perfect than any other group, as is shown by the examples provided which you've chosen to either ignore or excuse.

490 posted on 03/17/2010 1:16:03 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
Remember this is the same woman who called Jeri Thompson (Fred Thompson's wife) a stripper and such when shilling for Mitt in ‘08...
491 posted on 03/17/2010 1:17:47 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: Saundra Duffy; colorcountry

No Mormon would do any of those things. Nope. Nope and nope.

- - - - - -
How do you know, SD? Are you arbiter of all things Mormon? Didn’t think so.

I have had similar experiences by LDS as have several missionaries/ministers to the LDS that I know. And I saw similar things when I was LDS against the ‘antis’.

There are some opponents who are offensive outside of General conference, but not all of them are yet anyone who witness to the LDS gets treated the same as if we are all publicly burning garments or promoting homosexuality.

The LDS are not as nice IRL as their PR portrays them. I amn not saying ALL LDS are mean but they ALL aren’t ‘harmless little fuzzballs’ either.


492 posted on 03/17/2010 1:18:15 PM PDT by reaganaut (Don't mind me, I did a little to much LDS in the 80's (Star Trek IV reference))
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To: Saundra Duffy

Some Christians actually believe Mormons when we say we love and serve the Savior. Jesus died for Mormons, too.
_________________________________________________

Some Christians dont know the truth about what mormons really believe...

Your problem here is the fact that the Christians here dont believe that you love and serve the Savior Jesus of the Christian Bible...

Yes, Jesus died for Mormons, too.

Jesus died for the whole world, not just mormons...

Hindus, Buddists, mormons, Islamics

But not everyone is saved...

or His children...

Mormons are not Christians...


493 posted on 03/17/2010 1:19:02 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy
No Mormon would do any of those things. Nope. Nope and nope. I am sorry those things happened to you but don’t try to blame it on Mormons.

It is unclear if you are delusional or merely deceived.

494 posted on 03/17/2010 1:20:31 PM PDT by svcw (Jesus comforts the uncomfortable and makes uncomfortable the comfortable.)
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To: Tennessee Nana; Saundra Duffy
Heck, if she can't answer, she could have gotten it directly from lds.org.

In its fulness, the gospel includes all the doctrines, principles, laws, ordinances, and covenants necessary for us to be exalted in the celestial kingdom. The Savior has promised that if we endure to the end, faithfully living the gospel, He will hold us guiltless before the Father at the Final Judgment (see 3 Nephi 27:16).

Doesn't sound like the Christian Gospel to me.

495 posted on 03/17/2010 1:21:01 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: svcw; Saundra Duffy

I wonder is Saundra thinks a Mormon Bishop would go hot-tubbing with a naked 15 year old?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2473041/posts


496 posted on 03/17/2010 1:22:53 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: Saundra Duffy; colorcountry

When I was in Salt Lake City at Temple Square last summer there was this young man with white face paint and he was wearing Temple garb. I guess he was protesting or something and I asked him if he was a Mormon and he said, “You bet.” I have no idea why he was there. It was just very strange.

- - - - - - -
I know who that is, he calls himself ‘the man in white’. Shawn McCraney had him on HOTM. I can post the link if you would like.

He was wierd, and yes he is faithful LDS. His reason for wearing temple garb out in public is because he believes that it is a symbol of holiness and should be worn publicly and proudly. He wasn’t protesting Mormonism, he was trying to be more public about his faith.

He also things that we can not only become Gods but that we can be BETTER than Jesus Christ.

I will admit he was weird and I actually felt sorry for him. Mormonism’s drive for perfection has literally driven him crazy.


497 posted on 03/17/2010 1:22:59 PM PDT by reaganaut (Don't mind me, I did a little to much LDS in the 80's (Star Trek IV reference))
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To: ejonesie22

I don’t remember that.

What a loving thing to say about others.


498 posted on 03/17/2010 1:23:39 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Saundra Duffy

” I’ve been spat upon, had things grabbed from my hand and thrown to the ground, I’ve been pushed and pulled, I’ve been yelled at and called names. “

No Mormon would do any of those things. Nope. Nope and nope. I am sorry those things happened to you but don’t try to blame it on Mormons.
________________________________________

You might want to get out of your cave now and again...

Mormons arent saints...

Look at the example mormons have in the criminal thief pedophile adulterer Joey Smith...

he encouraged mormons to kill Christians and steal from them...

Brigham Young murdered those children at Mountain Meadows...

I was ill treated by a mormon ...

my children were mocked and abused by mormons...

Just saying so wont make it go away...

Saundra’s head...meet sand...

Hey...roof...


499 posted on 03/17/2010 1:24:05 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy
One time this Baptist lady found out I was a Mormon and she said, “Well, then you’re not a Christian!” I told her that Jesus Christ is my Savior and I love Him. She has been nice to me ever since.

Sandy, it is beginning to pass credulity with your posts.

500 posted on 03/17/2010 1:24:55 PM PDT by svcw (Jesus comforts the uncomfortable and makes uncomfortable the comfortable.)
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