Posted on 03/15/2010 12:07:15 PM PDT by Colofornian
Edited on 03/23/2010 6:15:31 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
When Glenn Beck told listeners of his radio show on March 2 that they should "run as fast as you can" from any church that preached "social or economic justice" because those were code words for Communism and Nazism, he probably thought he was tweaking a few crunchy religious liberals who didn't listen to the show anyway. Instead he managed to outrage Christians in most mainline Protestant denominations, African-American congregations, Hispanic churches, and Catholics...
(Excerpt) Read more at swampland.blogs.time.com ...
Excellent description. Saving for further education of the masses.
I like your tagline. :)
Okay, you say that it’s not God’s will. What is His will then?
I live in the American South and a majority of my friends, neighbors, and co-workers are Evangelical. Some of them have told me that if a person doesn’t accept Christ in this life, then they were damned, your definition of “damned.” They were going to suffer eternal, indescribable torment in hell because they didn’t accept Christ.
I asked them what about the people who had never heard of Christ or had the gospel explained to them so they could even begin to understand it. They replied that it didn’t matter, in order to be saved, you either accept Christ as your personal Savior in this life or you go to Hell.
I then asked them about the Christian churches that, in the past, wouldn’t let a person be buried in the church’s cemetery if the person hadn’t either been baptized or had verbally accepted Christ. This included little babies who died just after birth. These Evangelicals, they told me they were Evangelicals, told me that it didn’t matter. God was a just God and a loving God and since He sent them to Hell, they deserved to be there, no matter what they did or didn’t do.
So CC, in your belief and knowledge of who and what God is, what is His will concerning those who never got the chance to accept Christ in this mortal life?
Is it any different from those whom I mentioned in this thread?
So you finally see the light. Congratz!!!!!
I do not understand why the equivocation? There are many answers you could give -
- I misread the prophets
- current church teachings state . . .
- its the same but different.
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“No, you declared that there was a difference even though there was no agreement that there was a difference, other than on your part, and you didn’t provide any substantial evidence other then just plopping out a quote, which could have been taken out of context, that there was a difference.”
urroner - had you followed the thread one post earlier - you would have found the paragraph and the link to the lds.org location. Now since you are jumping midstream to another exchange - please note that. I will not try to answer for normandy, nor should you, on why his view is seemingly different from the prophet. A question requesting clarification or opinion is not a presupposition. On the contrary - as mormons tend to claim we ‘distort’ mormon doctrine - I am asking for a clarification so that it is not distorted. You can answer the question for yourself fwiw, unless its implcations are disturbing to your understanding of what the prophet taught in context of my discussions with Norman.
“
Remember when you asked me if I trusted God enough to be pregnant for eternity if that is what He chose, and I said YES I trust God implicitly and so I know that He would never make me go through eternity pregnant?
Do you remember that conversation?
Well this question of yours demands the same answer. I TRUST GOD IMPLICITLY to do whatever God wills. I am given certain knowledge and with that knowledge comes, not only responsibility, but great freedom. That is all I need to know.
Why do you want to do God’s job? Why don’t you trust in Him and in His will? Why do you feel the need to make Him into your image (the image of a man)?
Thanks...my waistline doesn’t ;(
Our effort approaches the spirit of the Savior’s atoning sacrifice—
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EPIC FACEPALM! But very clearly shows the LDS have no concept of Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross.
That is NOT Evangelical doctrine.
Again, read Romans, Paul is clear on how God’s mercy and grace applies to those who have never heard the Gospel and it doesn’t involve ordinances for the dead.
So, by your criteria here, we can task you with what "Some FLDS mormons told me"...."Some COC mormons told me"...and on and on....
There IS, according to the Salt Lake mormons, just ONE mormon church....there ARE many, many Evangelical churches. If one is a Christian, nondenominational, at that...why would one be responsible for the words of all these other denominational/nondenominational Evangelicals when the Salt Lake Mormon denomination holds itself as seperate from all the other mormon branches and refutes their beliefs?
You will note, we do not bring the COC or FLDS beliefs to the table here.
Both
If he doesn’t find us, what does that mean? If God is 100% in control then it must mean that God didn’t want Christ to find us.
Alright, I know these are difficult concepts, and have been within Christian denominations for a very long time. I will actually take the time to delve into this, provided you can answer the following few questions that deal with roughly the same areas of thought from the Lds Doctrine & Covenants:
(Q #1) When Joseph Smith used the term "elect" in these two D&C passages, what did he mean? Does it mean He "found" and "elected" only some?
Passage A: And ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect... (D&C 29:7)
Passage B: And the scriptures shall be given, even as they are in mine own bosom, to the salvation of mine own elect. (D&C 35:20)
(Q series #2) Same essential Q here re: What does Joseph Smith mean by the following?
Passage C: Who willeth to take even them whom he will take, and preserveth in life them whom he will preserve; Who buildeth up at his own will and pleasure; and destroyeth when he pleases, and is able to cast the soul down to hell. (D&C 63:3-4)
IOW, Does God know how to "willeth" us and "take even them whom he will take" as he "wills"? If God is 100% in control then does it then mean that God "buildeth up at his own will and pleasure; and destroyeth when he pleases, and is able to cast the soul down to hell?" (Yes?)
(Q series #3) Why did Joseph Smith say that the Holy Ghost gave only "some...to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world" ??? (D&C 46:13) Why only to "others" was "it..given to believe on their words, that they might have eternal life..." (D&C 46:14) Why not everybody?
Passage D -- Full quote of vv. 13-14 together: To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful. (D&C 46:13-14)
It’s really strange funny that Joseph Smith didn’t have enough faith in the Just God to trust Him, but had to go make up some convoluted “works for the dead” in order to assuage his fears that his brother might not have been saved.
And Mormonism just builds a whole empire around the weird doctrine. AND we get lectured by someone with no conception of an All Mighty God about what happens if we haven’t done the ‘work’ necessary to ‘accept’ the gift.
Does that summarize this thread or what?
And Mormonism just builds a whole empire around the weird doctrine. AND we get lectured by someone with no conception of an All Mighty God about what happens if we haven’t done the ‘work’ necessary to ‘accept’ the gift.
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Pretty much.
ROFL. I may need to change mine too. ;)
Does that summarize this thread or what?
Well, colorcountry, you have said you were mormon at one time, (clears throat) someone on this thread said something along the line of "it depends on what the meaning of damned is"...so there is a slight flavor of the guy who said "it depends on what the meaning of "is" is....
I really doubt, viewing smith's life, that he ever gave a serious thought about the sufficency of God.
His was more of a P.T. Barnum approach - he discovered he could obtain more prestige and power using his con-artist skills fooling people into a fake religion than he could as a convicted treasure seeker.
His was more of a P.T. Barnum approach - he discovered he could obtain more prestige and power using his con-artist skills ...
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You forgot women, lots more women too. Adultery is just part of “God’s plan” for us according to him (although he redefined adultery, too)
You too, grey - - you need to add “(who “said you were mormon at one time”)”
We don’t want any confusion around here....well any MORE confusion.
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