Why Does Glenn Beck Hate Jesus?

Time.com ^ | March 14, 2010 | Amy Sullivan

[reaganaut]

That was a shocker to find out that they really didn’t see the plates contrary to what the missionaries and other LDS often claimed.

[Elsie]

“Secret Golden Tablets that no one has seen.”

Not secret at all and seen by several witnesses. None that you care about I am sure.

 

 

 

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

 

 No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

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Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

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*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

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Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

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What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Elsie]

 

However this gets even stranger when it comes to the so called “translating” of the so called gold plates” ...

because Joey Smith claims he “translated” the plates WITHOUT EVEN LOOKIBNG AT THEM...

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"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

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"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

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"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

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In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

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"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

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In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

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Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

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"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

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[Elsie]

They have to believe and live a certain way to receive that gift.

Oh??

 

 

John 6

28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

[reaganaut]

What do you suppose was meant when Christ said “He who is without sin let him cast the first stone.”

(snip)

His death on the Cross alone has not done anything for those who think they can do or say anything they want because they are forgiven. They have to believe and live a certain way to receive that gift.

Repentance, humility, forgiveness, good will, love and all of the virtues that Christ espoused must be part of the rebuilding of oneself in order to receive that gift.

- - - - - - - -

Wow, just wow. That is the worst misinterpretation and twisting of that verse that I have ever seen.

What Christ meant when He said to the Pharisees who were about to stone the woman taken in adultery was that they were hypocrites, that they were sinners, too.

No Christian I know would EVER, EVER claim that they were not sinners. Quite the opposite in fact, we recognize in a very real way just how sinful we are and that NOTHING, NOTHING we do will make up for that in the smallest amount. Not even close.

Salvation by Grace is a gift, it does not require ‘living a certain way’. If it did then it would be ‘wages’ not a gift.

The idea that we can ‘rebuild ourselves’ as you put it, is the height of arrogance. We can do nothing. Christ does it all, He draws us to Him, He saves us, He changes us, He gives us His Spirit, He sanctifies us, He works good works through us. We do nothing, we can do nothing at all.

[metmom]

All our righteous acts are as filthy rags.

We can do NOTHING to *clean ourselves up*.

If righteousness could be gained through the Law, Christ died for nothing.

[reaganaut]

exactly. But the LDS don’t get that. They are so determined to ‘pull themselves up by their bootstraps’ and that there is the ‘contract’ they have to do their part for.

Sad, really.

[metmom]

The Pharisees counted on their works and heritage for favor with God as well.

He wasn’t impressed.

[reaganaut]

No He wasn’t. And with good reason.

They think they have all the answers yet they get the questions all wrong.

‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.’ - Matthew 15:8

[Colofornian]

Sorry, but Brigham Young wasn’t Communist, no more than the early Christians, just after the death of Christ were. There is plenty of evidence that they practiced a “united Order” type of living. It talks about it in the book of Acts.

How outlandish of you to disagree with an Lds "prophet" (John Taylor). And here we thought more recent Mormon "revelations" outdid previous one!

Here's what Taylor said about the "United Order" in Orderville: "We had NO EXAMPLE OF THE 'UNITED ORDER' IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE WORD OF GOD ON THE SUBJECT... (Lds author George W. Givens, 500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, p. 169)

So's whose right? You? Or an Lds "prophet"?

...I am talking about you accusing, in a sly way, Beck of not knowing the history of the Mormon Church.

The Book of Acts is how you describe Utah's United-Order living? Did you ever read yourself (and I wonder if Beck has) the connection between the Utah community of Brigham City and communist leader Lenin (Soviet Russia)???

Here, allow me to fill you in. And I'll cite Givens again, a faithful Mormon author, BTW:

"One of the most famous utopian books ever written was Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy, published in 1889. Some scholars believe Looking Backward had considerable influence in the making of Lenin's Soviet Russia. If this is true, then [Lds "prophet"] Lorenzo Snow and the Latter-day Saints must receive some of the credit--or blame. Hearing of the success of the United Order in Brigham City, Edward Bellamy made a special trip to Utah in 1886 to study its operation. There he spent three days with Lorenzo Snow, Brigham City's founder and forty-year resident. Impressed with the thirty to forty industries run by its 2,000 inhabitants and the vitality at that time of one of the most successful United Orders, Bellamy returned home and wrote his influential book." (500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, p. 185).

So. Get the picture?
Joseph Smith creates the picture of a "United Order" utopian fantasy.
Brigham Young keeps them going in Utah...in communities like Orderville and Brigham City.
3rd Lds "prophet" John Taylor, realizing there's no scriptural basis for United Orders, dismantles the one in Orderville (he also cited other reasons such as "Our relations with the world and our own imperfections prevent the establishment of this system at the present time, as was stated by Joseph in an early day, it cannot yet be carried out.")
Lorenzo Snow, before becoming an Lds "prophet" in 1898, founded the United Order community of Brigham City.
A Utopian author (Bellamy) visits Brigham City in 1886. It reinforces his ideas in his book.
Lenin gets ahold of his book; and further injects utopian Marxism into Soviet Russia.
In the interim (back in Utah), a ballad crops up about Orderville after it appears that one of the sons of the Lds presiding elder of that town (Alvin Heaton), murders a pregnant girl (Mary Steavens) he refused to marry in 1890. Apparently, he was convicted & sent to prison. (see Givens, p. 190)

(So much for Mormon "Utopia")

[reaganaut]

Very interesting. I was unaware of the connection as well.

[ejonesie22]

Being saved by Grace causes us to live a certain way, it does require us to live that way.

I won't even touch the throwing stones bit. More Oprah Christianity.

[Elsie]

No Christian I know would EVER, EVER claim that they were not sinners.

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (KJV)

[Elsie]

 

If righteousness could be gained through the Law, Christ died for nothing.

 

John 6 28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29. Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Galatians 3 1. You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

 

[Elsie]

Orderville ping

[Elsie]

How outlandish of you to disagree with an Lds "prophet" (John Taylor).

 

"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes, whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the 'prophets, seers, and revelators' of the Church is cultivating the spirit of apostacy..."

(Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354)

 

 

 

Reinforced here......

 

MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle leader, from the PBS documentary, "The Mormons", declaring unequivocally:

"IT'S WRONG TO CRITICIZE LEADERS OF THE (MORMON) CHURCH, EVEN IF THE CRITICISM IS TRUE."

 

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Don't criticize?

 

Dallin H. Oaks, Mormon Apostle 

 

 

 

And here:

 

Temple Recommend Questions:

 1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

 5 Do you live the law of chastity?

 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

     Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

     Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Oh, they can say that their leaders were NOT speaking for GOD when they said ___WHATEVER__ but that's NOT the same as criticizing!

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( Remember fellow Christians:  the Mormon's criticize US because they've been taught that they CAN'T criticize ANY of their leaders; so they HAVE to vent somehow! )

[Utah Binger]

Coffee is served!

[Utah Binger]

There is an Orderville. Are you giving any orders today? Possibly United Orders?

[svcw]

Then what about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? Was Jesus a liar when He said: “today you will be with me in Paradise”.

[SQUID]

What happened before Christ told him that?